Why are my triglycerides going up on carnivore?

(Bob M) #10

It’s tricky. Your trigs will go up after eating, it’s just how much time do you need for them to normalize?

I would say what you did is probably fine, and I doubt you would get much of a change between 12 hours and 20 hours of fasting.

I think you might have higher trigs, though why, I can’t say.

See also this:

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image.jpg700×531 107 KB

It’s a weird scale, but it shows the more fat (going from low at the top to high at the bottom) Dave ate, the lower his trigs were.

That’s another avenue to examine.

Edit: 344 grams of fat per day is about 3,100 calories…of fat.

(Shannon) #11

I have wondered if I should maybe lower my protein a little and up my fat. I eat almost exclusively fatty meat, and almost always add more fat to it, like around 3 tbs of butter per meal, but maybe I could tweak it a bit more.

But I’ve also wondered if it’s just an adjustment phase. I know some people have said that other things went wonky for up to the first year. But it’s hard for me to just be laid back about it, as it seems like high triglycerides are usually bad news. Plus I’m just confused about it, because on keto they normalized, and it doesn’t make a lot of sense for them to go high again from switching to carnivore. And it’s frustrating that I have to wait another 6 months to get them rechecked. I’m probably going to have to make myself stop obsessing about it. Exercise, eat more fat, and just chill about it, yep.

Thanks for all of the help. I appreciate it.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #12

Apparently, fasting too long or not long enough before the blood draw really skews the results, according to Dave Feldman. At the last Ketofest, a buddy and I were going to give Dave some blood, because we could get the timing of the fast he wanted, but we had to say no when we found out that Dave also didn’t want us to have coffee beforehand. Like that was gonna happen! :grin::rofl:

#13

There are no TRUE ALL IN WHAT IS BEST ON trigs, overall chol. numbers and more when it comes to a Keto Plan eating only human, nor even worse without any trials, a zc eating plan :slight_smile:

You are not you on this test and what true overall chol. is giving you and PaulL hit on alot.

it isn’t hard to google zc and trigs raising and time line on changes, easily 6 mos but for many up to and past a year for ‘changes’ WE FEEL are ‘acceptable’ ON SOME antiquated testing done for carby eaters? so…

How do we ever know that higher trigs is what the body requires IF WE are all in carnivore.

we can’t pinpoint 1 number without considering a GAZILLION other factors ya know from what this life is today and testing starting, when? vs what is the real deal life science for the human body on this planet?

yea SO much sway here for full truths.

so there is tons of zc info out there with ZIOH and ZCH and Baker and Saladino and Mason and more all about carnivore and chol.

key being, while you walk this walk know that longer one is zc, as in years, we are a whole new us also and then can we even pretend to base our ‘testing’ against what testing is out there?

ok just carni food for thought LOL but recommendation is go and google carnivore and why trigs do this and that and overall chol. etc on ‘current human times’ vs. what was a ‘chol.’ test a million years ago and then we find we are ‘kinda in a massive gray zone’ here :slight_smile:

but IF every health marker is improving and your life is changing to only the better, what weight does this ‘1 scary number’ on testing right now in your journey become? that only you can draw conclusions.

(Bob M) #14

It doesn’t matter for most people. I got a cholesterol test done fasting 12+ hours, then chugged coffee and tea, and got a second cholesterol test done. No change in cholesterol values for me. (Those results are at home, though, and I’m at work, or else I’d put them here.)

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #15

You tell Dave that; I wouldn’t dare! :rofl::rofl:

(Joey) #16

Just thought I’d clarify for future readers …

My understanding of Feldman’s LMHR profile: While LDL spikes sharply, HDL rises too, but Triglycerides decline (not rise).

(Bob M) #17

I think that’s because “energy” is being transported from fat intake though a process that partially involves LDL, which means that fewer triglycerides are needed for energy transport. On the other hand, when you’re taking in low amounts of fat, you need to get energy from your own fat, meaning trigs go up, LDL down.

I think trigs are part of one energy pathway, while LDL is part of a different pathway. Different, but interrelated.

Of course, Dave is a highly insulin-sensitive person, who is (or was at the time) exercising a lot. It would be interesting to see what happens for those who aren’t as insulin sensitive. Say you can’t transport fat well from your fat storage. What happens then?

(Joey) #18

Are you sure serum triglycerides increase if you’re burning your own fat?

I was under the impression that the trigs got unbundled into glucose and individual fatty acids (no longer “tri”-glycerides), thereby lowering measured triglyceride count. Someone closer to the chemistry of this, please correct me!

In any event, here’s my n=1 when I went keto: My LDL shot way up, HDL rose to new heights well over 100, but my trigs plunged to new lows of around 50 mg/dL - all while losing 25 lbs, which suggest I was burning up my body’s excess fat deposits. This is what made me presume I’m an “LMHR” type.

Not wanting to hijack this thread from its original focus, just wanted to keep the LMHR profile clear, at least as I understand how Feldman describes it.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #19

As long as insulin is low, triglycerides in adipose tissue can be broken down (lipolysis) and escape the adipocyte. (I believe they get reintegrated into triglycerides for transport to where they are needed. People who are insulin-resistant simply have to eat less glucose (i.e., carbohydrate) to keep their insulin low enough for adipocytes to lipolyse their triglycerides.

Lipolysis involves the enzyme hormone-sensitive lipase, which is inhibited by high insulin levels (remember, when we eat lots of carbohydrate, we are trying to put on weight for the winter, so we don’t want fatty acids to escape storage at that time). As long as insulin is low enough to permit lipolysis, the fatty acids can pass through the walls of the adipocytes. But triglycerides are too large to pass through the adipocyte walls, so by inhibiting hormone-sensitive lipase, elevated insulin effectively traps fatty acids in the fat tissue.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #20

I don’t actually believe they do, but Dave Feldman has studied this in detail, so I’d go with whatever he says. My understanding, however, is that elevated triglycerides are caused by excessive carb intake, and it’s the chylomicrons that transport those triglycerides to the cells for storage (or use).

The VLDL is, if I’ve got this right, what transports triglycerides out of the fat cells (adipocytes) to wherever energy is needed. And if I understand Dave’s analogy correctly, the cholesterol is simply along for the ride, much as life preservers are “along for the ride” when boats transport passengers.

Please, someone, correct whatever I’ve got wrong, and I’ll amend this post.

#21

yea not going down as you say LOL

but from what I posted above the ‘direct exact reason’ and ‘time on plan’ that comes in our own timeline thru our journey only shows truths.

(Joey) #22

Here’s what he says regarding LMHR profile:

To characterize the LMHR phenotype, we used previously proposed cri-
teria: LDL cholesterol ≥200 mg/dL, HDL cholesterol ≥80 mg/dL,
and TG ≤70 mg/dL.

This comes from a paper he co-authored with Norwitz, Ludwig, et al


… BTW, the “previously proposed” reference follows a citation to the Cholesterol Code website.

(Shannon) #23

But I HAD changes on keto. My trigs normalized, for the first time in 7 years (at least … I had no testing prior to that). So again, I’m unclear how going from a low carb diet to a carnivore diet would cause my normal trigs to increase so much.

It seems everyone in the low carb community agrees that high trigs are bad. I would love to hear someone say it’s not cause for concern, but that’s not what I hear, ever.

Obviously that was the first thing I did. I didn’t find any results.

If high trigs and low HDL are a risk factor for heart issues I think that matters. Not enough to go off carnivore, but I don’t think I’m being silly for wanting to figure it out.

EXACTLY! So my triglycerides should reduce on a zero carb diet, not increase. That’s my confusion.

But I take in high fat. I add something like 3 tablespoons of butter to each meal, and I eat fatty cuts of meat.

That’s interesting. But for me, at least, my trigs normalized on keto. They regularly went down until they were in the normal range. So if fat transport plays into it I still wouldn’t understand why I would suddenly have that problem in a carnivore diet when I didn’t on a keto diet.

Could the amount of protein I’m eating raise my insulin enough to cause the spike in triglycerides?

Just a reminder that I’m zero carb, so excessive carb intake can only be one reason for elevated triglycerides.

(Joey) #24

To clarify: triglycerides are seen to decline in “Lean Mass Hyper Responders” - a minority in the population who present a different metabolic profile than others. If you’re not an LMHR (which it appears is the case) you are still in good company!

I appreciate this doesn’t help address your increase in trigs. I was simply trying to keep the LMHR “phenomenon” straight in this thread :vulcan_salute:

(I’ll add parenthetically that carnivore may be a bit extreme for your particular metabolism at this point in time. Perhaps back off the protein, increase saturated fats, and see if that lowers your trigs a bit? Just spitballin’ here.)

(Shannon) #25

I have to be carnivore for digestive issues. Carnivore has either addressed, or totally fixed ALL of my issues I had, that keto only marginally helped. I was suffering horribly and now my quality of life has greatly improved, so there’s no chance I’m going back to keto. I could try eating less protein and increasing my fat, but I already eat quite a bit of fat in a day, so I don’t know if that’s a good idea or not. Not that I would mind. I love butter all by itself. But it seems even on keto or carnivore you can still have too much fat. For instance, this was my first meal. My second meal isn’t so heavy on the fat, but it’s still high fat. I cook in plenty of fat, and depending on what it is I add extra after the fact. So I’m easily getting over 200 g of fat per day.

image

Maybe I’ll just wait 6 months until my next labs on the off chance my system is just doing something weird while it adjusts. If it’s still high next time I’ll try lowering my protein and increasing fat.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #26

I was actually thinking more about what he says on his site and in lectures what the purpose of chylomicrons (and the triglycerides they carry) is. I believe he says that when we don’t eat carbohydrate, our triglyceride level drops considerably. Of course, he also says, as I recall, that the triglyceride level is highly volatile, so perhaps we shouldn’t place to much reliance on it.

#27

if you got benefits that help your overall being of life ‘so early on in ZC’ and try to manipulate to some lower of trigs then you are sorely in a massively wrong mindset and I forsee only you are gonna get in your own darn way and carnivore will never be sustainable to you

trigs can go WAY up before they come down. timeline on you…who knows? normal all in zc issues as we change on this plan.


TONS…ZCH…zero carb health

alot of reading LOL

ZIOH, zeroing on health
Dr Ken Berry
Dr R Cwyes
Kelly Hogan
Amber O’hearn
G Eades and so many more truths to explain out there yet not ever given any thought to following your own path thru your own wonderings on your issues?

what is your total KNOWLEDGE of ZC you researched on whys and more truths with zc as a lifestyle vs all the good zc info out there.

don’t ever think you are one test now and what 1 yr, 2 yrs could be?
ugh

if it ain’t instantaneous right now in a blip of short life on changes we are engaging then…all bets off? bail?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #28

These numbers have to be taken in context. Usually, a high triglyceride reading indicates that the patient is eating a high-carbohydrate diet, in which case insulin and glucose in the blood are doing various significant types of damage. I don’t believe that the triglycerides themselves are the problem, just that they are a marker for a serious issue. In the context of a carnivore diet, the meaning of elevated triglycerides may be different.

Also, as Dave Feldman points out, the triglyceride number is quite volatile, and it is probably not a good idea to place too much reliance on scattered readings. He also says that things like fasting too long or not fasting long enough before the blood draw can affect the reading we get, as can something as simple as having a cup of coffee before heading over to the lab. The body tries to keep blood volume constant, but it does fluctuate, and those fluctuations also affect the reading.

(Shannon) #29

This is hardly helpful, and absolutely untrue. Insulting, actually.

I never EVEN suggested bailing. I’m in it for the long haul. Does this forum have a block feature? Because I WILL bail on speaking further with you.

Edit; I see it doesn’t. Well thanks to you I’ll be letting myself out of this forum. Your rudeness isn’t acceptable and I won’t stay around and be treated this way.