Why are my triglycerides going up on carnivore?

[Fangs]

I don’t actually believe they do

yea not going down as you say LOL

but from what I posted above the ‘direct exact reason’ and ‘time on plan’ that comes in our own timeline thru our journey only shows truths.

[SomeGuy]

…Dave Feldman has studied this in detail, so I’d go with whatever he says.

Here’s what he says regarding LMHR profile:

To characterize the LMHR phenotype, we used previously proposed cri-
teria: LDL cholesterol ≥200 mg/dL, HDL cholesterol ≥80 mg/dL,
and TG ≤70 mg/dL.

This comes from a paper he co-authored with Norwitz, Ludwig, et al

Elevated LDL Cholesterol with a Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet: Evidence for a...

… BTW, the “previously proposed” reference follows a citation to the Cholesterol Code website.

[ShannonM]

it isn’t hard to google zc and trigs raising and time line on changes, easily 6 mos but for many up to and past a year for ‘changes’

But I HAD changes on keto. My trigs normalized, for the first time in 7 years (at least … I had no testing prior to that). So again, I’m unclear how going from a low carb diet to a carnivore diet would cause my normal trigs to increase so much.

WE FEEL are ‘acceptable’

It seems everyone in the low carb community agrees that high trigs are bad. I would love to hear someone say it’s not cause for concern, but that’s not what I hear, ever.

but recommendation is go and google carnivore and why trigs do this and that

Obviously that was the first thing I did. I didn’t find any results.

but IF every health marker is improving and your life is changing to only the better, what weight does this ‘1 scary number’ on testing right now in your journey become?

If high trigs and low HDL are a risk factor for heart issues I think that matters. Not enough to go off carnivore, but I don’t think I’m being silly for wanting to figure it out.

My understanding of Feldman’s LMHR profile: While LDL spikes sharply, HDL rises too, but Triglycerides decline (not rise).

EXACTLY! So my triglycerides should reduce on a zero carb diet, not increase. That’s my confusion.

On the other hand, when you’re taking in low amounts of fat, you need to get energy from your own fat, meaning trigs go up, LDL down.

But I take in high fat. I add something like 3 tablespoons of butter to each meal, and I eat fatty cuts of meat.

Say you can’t transport fat well from your fat storage. What happens then?

That’s interesting. But for me, at least, my trigs normalized on keto. They regularly went down until they were in the normal range. So if fat transport plays into it I still wouldn’t understand why I would suddenly have that problem in a carnivore diet when I didn’t on a keto diet.

As long as insulin is low,

Could the amount of protein I’m eating raise my insulin enough to cause the spike in triglycerides?

My understanding, however, is that elevated triglycerides are caused by excessive carb intake

Just a reminder that I’m zero carb, so excessive carb intake can only be one reason for elevated triglycerides.

[SomeGuy]

EXACTLY! So my triglycerides should reduce on a zero carb diet, not increase. That’s my confusion.

To clarify: triglycerides are seen to decline in “Lean Mass Hyper Responders” - a minority in the population who present a different metabolic profile than others. If you’re not an LMHR (which it appears is the case) you are still in good company!

I appreciate this doesn’t help address your increase in trigs. I was simply trying to keep the LMHR “phenomenon” straight in this thread

(I’ll add parenthetically that carnivore may be a bit extreme for your particular metabolism at this point in time. Perhaps back off the protein, increase saturated fats, and see if that lowers your trigs a bit? Just spitballin’ here.)

[ShannonM]

I’ll add parenthetically that carnivore may be a bit extreme for your particular metabolism at this point in time.

I have to be carnivore for digestive issues. Carnivore has either addressed, or totally fixed ALL of my issues I had, that keto only marginally helped. I was suffering horribly and now my quality of life has greatly improved, so there’s no chance I’m going back to keto. I could try eating less protein and increasing my fat, but I already eat quite a bit of fat in a day, so I don’t know if that’s a good idea or not. Not that I would mind. I love butter all by itself. But it seems even on keto or carnivore you can still have too much fat. For instance, this was my first meal. My second meal isn’t so heavy on the fat, but it’s still high fat. I cook in plenty of fat, and depending on what it is I add extra after the fact. So I’m easily getting over 200 g of fat per day.

Maybe I’ll just wait 6 months until my next labs on the off chance my system is just doing something weird while it adjusts. If it’s still high next time I’ll try lowering my protein and increasing fat.

[PaulL]

Here’s what he says regarding LMHR profile:

I was actually thinking more about what he says on his site and in lectures what the purpose of chylomicrons (and the triglycerides they carry) is. I believe he says that when we don’t eat carbohydrate, our triglyceride level drops considerably. Of course, he also says, as I recall, that the triglyceride level is highly volatile, so perhaps we shouldn’t place to much reliance on it.

[Fangs]

if you got benefits that help your overall being of life ‘so early on in ZC’ and try to manipulate to some lower of trigs then you are sorely in a massively wrong mindset and I forsee only you are gonna get in your own darn way and carnivore will never be sustainable to you

trigs can go WAY up before they come down. timeline on you…who knows? normal all in zc issues as we change on this plan.

Zero Carb Information Videos

I like Grass Fed Girl. Even tho some of her vids. can get long but this one is a shorter, easy listen, fast. She makes great points why her switch from keto to carnivore has helped her improve immensely.

TONS…ZCH…zero carb health

alot of reading LOL

ZIOH, zeroing on health
Dr Ken Berry
Dr R Cwyes
Kelly Hogan
Amber O’hearn
G Eades and so many more truths to explain out there yet not ever given any thought to following your own path thru your own wonderings on your issues?

what is your total KNOWLEDGE of ZC you researched on whys and more truths with zc as a lifestyle vs all the good zc info out there.

don’t ever think you are one test now and what 1 yr, 2 yrs could be?
ugh

if it ain’t instantaneous right now in a blip of short life on changes we are engaging then…all bets off? bail?

[PaulL]

It seems everyone in the low carb community agrees that high trigs are bad. I would love to hear someone say it’s not cause for concern, but that’s not what I hear, ever.

These numbers have to be taken in context. Usually, a high triglyceride reading indicates that the patient is eating a high-carbohydrate diet, in which case insulin and glucose in the blood are doing various significant types of damage. I don’t believe that the triglycerides themselves are the problem, just that they are a marker for a serious issue. In the context of a carnivore diet, the meaning of elevated triglycerides may be different.

Also, as Dave Feldman points out, the triglyceride number is quite volatile, and it is probably not a good idea to place too much reliance on scattered readings. He also says that things like fasting too long or not fasting long enough before the blood draw can affect the reading we get, as can something as simple as having a cup of coffee before heading over to the lab. The body tries to keep blood volume constant, but it does fluctuate, and those fluctuations also affect the reading.

[ShannonM]

I forsee only you are gonna get in your own darn way and carnivore will never be sustainable to you

This is hardly helpful, and absolutely untrue. Insulting, actually.

if it ain’t instantaneous right now in a blip of short life on changes we are engaging then…all bets off? bail?

I never EVEN suggested bailing. I’m in it for the long haul. Does this forum have a block feature? Because I WILL bail on speaking further with you.

Edit; I see it doesn’t. Well thanks to you I’ll be letting myself out of this forum. Your rudeness isn’t acceptable and I won’t stay around and be treated this way.

[Fangs]

why insulting, I would love TO KNOW your ZC information status on your journey…cause many don’t have a friggin’ clue on science behind it but sorry u felt attacked, never meat it to be that way, just meant if you feel you got ALL GOOD from this and 1 number seems wonky, WHY NOT go learn more thru the carnivore/zc ventures? did not mean it to go down that way but you ‘felt very secure in your journey’ for me ask harder questions on you about your journey, again, sorry if my assumption was off on that one. I kinda thought you were all in and ‘there with zc’ and knew more maybe? in a way!

from Oct 2020 as you posted! I haven’t been bed bound, but maybe that’s only because I’m the only licensed driver and my son is the only one with a job so basically I have to get up. But I’ve been so exhausted so much of the time and I would get so mad when people would say that’s just how it is when you get in your 40s. I don’t think they have an idea how much I suffer.

So to me I have NO clue on your changes and what you are attempting but for years on this site I see alot of non commitement that I can’t even go ‘there’ in addressing but I gave YOU BIG ZC info, you do with it as you see fit. Your history here shows truths. Sending only the best to you to find you and won’t ever comment again about a ‘ZC’ post from you cause I think that is best for me all cool here cause I see it as I personally see it. best of luck

[PaulL]

Could the amount of protein I’m eating raise my insulin enough to cause the spike in triglycerides?

According to Bikman, it’s not supposed to, because while insulin goes go up when we eat protein on a low- or no-carb diet, the rise in insulin is matched by an equivalent rise in glucagon, and thus the insulin/glucagon ratio remains unchanged. (Eating protein along with a lot of carbohydrate still generates the insulin release, but the glucagon release is inhibited.)

Just a reminder that I’m zero carb, so excessive carb intake can only be one reason for elevated triglycerides.

I believe I mentioned this in another post, so I won’t go into it a second time.

Sometimes it is possible to have too much information. The problem here lies in distinguishing markers for conditions from the actual conditions themselves. Getting hung up on a marker risks either ignoring an underlying problem, or else assuming there’s a problem that actually doesn’t exist. Either way, we can risk our health. This is why I feel strongly that context is important.

The PSA level in men is an example of this. It used to be assumed that an elevated PSA meant prostate cancer, but now they have no idea what an elevated PSA number means. Yet many men’s prostates were removed unnecessarily because their PSA went up, and now they have to deal with the consequences of the operation. They are bad enough to deal with when the operation was necessary, but when it wasn’t, they’ve got to be really frustrating. These days, the experts are recommending that men refuse to get their PSA level measured, so that their doctor won’t be tempted into unnecessary action.

[SomeGuy]

Edit; I see it doesn’t. Well thanks to you I’ll be letting myself out of this forum.

@ShannonM If you’re still here, please don’t leave. Your posts and interactions have been of interest and informative for others. Whether folks here can adequately resolve your current concerns remains unclear at the moment. But your contributions to discussions would be missed.

[VirginiaEdie]

Maybe lay off the butter and just eat meat. Most carnivores don’t bother adding extra fat. They just eat their meat.

[Corals]

This person comes up with very high trigs and people give all kind of answers… The honest answer is: we don’t know! Nobody knows if the fact one is eating 0 carbs makes it suddenly ok to have such high trigs!

Be cautious, people with high trigs. If you’re on a diet to solve problems, but this diet creates, or doesn’t solve other problems, weight pros and cons to see if it is worth keeping doing what you’re doing. You’re perhaps an outlier.

[Shortstuff]

elevated triglycerides are caused by excessive carb intake,

But @PaulL, my trigs are apparently sky high and rising (big red letters “SPEAK TO YOUR DOCTOR!” on my last bloods), but carbs are still minimal…

[Septimius]

Ken Berry and Kelly Hogan have been talking about this recently - I was only half concentrating, but I think they were suggesting that fish or fish oil (and possibly iodine?) help to bring triglycerides down.

[PaulL]

Sorry I wasn’t clear. Guess I should have tried to word it in a way that didn’t seem as though I meant that excessive carbs were the only cause.

[Fangs]

you missed my point. you are asking ALL ABOUT ZC on a Keto forum.
have you researched any I posted or have you done any exploring of ZC on your own? ZC will not be and never be an extreme lc eating plan or a keto plan or a paleo plan or ? and we are very different is all I meant.

you will bail IF YOU put all your focus on one number. You will bail if you keep old dieting baggage info in your focus IF you go zc where no ‘tests’ have gone before kind is what I am saying.

ZC is rogue, go find the rogue info SO much out there on the net why we do what we do and WHY OUR tests are changing, tons out there, I gave you alot to read info so far so if ya do that? So many carnivore sites to direct you.

not being unhelpful, just saying pony up some real hardcore effort on your part to learn real zc. We can’t ‘chat you into’ perfect numbers you feel are ok…ain’t gonna happen ever.

[robintemplin]

Pretty sure Shannon has left the building.

[Fangs]

whatever happens, happens
live and learn and be truths or not on wants to hear now?