When to exercise on extended fasts? BCAA?

[SeriousOmz]

37 yo male, 5’10”, 200lbs here. After trying low calorie, low fat, low carb and other failed recommendations, I’ve finally settled on alternate day fasting. Basically I follow The Obesity Code, Dr Jason Fung 42 hour fasting 3 times a week eg Monday I would have lunch and dinner (anything within 2300 cals), nothing except water/coffee/tea on Tuesday, and then starting to feast again at lunch on Wednesday. Same pattern follows 3 times a week. This has worked great for the last 3 months, and I’ve seen gradual progress and fat loss and this way of life has become easy to follow.

I’d like to add training now that I’m more comfortable with my weight and movement. I’d like to alternate weight/endurance training with cardio/rest days, however I’m unsure as to which day to do either. LeanGains discusses 16:8 mostly but I’d like to stretch it a bit to what has worked for me so far in terms of longer fasting durations.

One option would be to have cardio/rest on the full fast day and endurance training on the feast days, employing the morning pre-workout BCAA recommended by Leangains, and post-workout scoops until lunchtime. I’m concerned whether it would be actually possible to train with weights after almost 36 hours without food?

The other option, would be to have cardio/rest on a feast day, with weight training immediately the next morning of the fast day, so that energy is not an issue. However that training would fall on a full fast day. BCAA scoops every 2 hrs makes sense if it’s between morning and lunchtime. What if the intention is to go the full day without a meal? Would it be necessary to have additional BCAA during until sleeptime? Or is this not a viable option altogether?

Appreciate any thoughts or advice you can provide.

Of course, I could just switch to pure LeanGains, but I’d like to continue with what I found worked for me in terms of weight loss.

[mikki]

I’m concerned whether it would be actually possible to train with weights after almost 36 hours without food?

fasted training is definitely possible and toooootally amazing.
i find that exercise/activity is actually a really good fasting tool and fasting is a really good training tool
i’ve done heavy (for me) weights and HIIT “cardio” fasted and kind of don’t see me ever fasting (extended) without exercise or exercising without being in a fasted state

i replaced my once with-me-at-ALL-times BCAA for electrolyte water once going keto.
also, the BCAA can have an affect on insulin…

just try it…you can always eat later

[Kirkor]

3x42h/wk seems like beyond Fung’s standard recommendations.

Also, BCAAs shut off autophagy, so you’d lose a big part of the benefit of an extended fast if you use them.

[SeriousOmz]

Much thanks for that Mikki! It’s really encouraging to know that any type of training is still possible after extended fasting!

I may be overthinking and overanalyzing everything here, but probably just trying things out and seeing what works is the best bet. Just hard to get away from continuously researching actual evidence on the ‘best’ method, when it’s been proven that the best method is what actually works for you.

[SeriousOmz]

Hi Kirkor,

3x42hr/wk is actually mentioned in Dr Fung’s “The Complete Guide to Fasting”, reference attached.

It is more for Type II Diabetics, and considering I was borderline I opted for it. I only have another 20 lbs to go, but I’d like to start toning with muscle as I feel I’ve lost a lot over the years.

I didn’t realize BCAA shuts off autophagy and growth hormone secretion. However, with this schedule it’s roughly 36 hours of fasting before training hard, so perhaps not such a bad thing to stop at that point? … Unless there’s a massive advantage for that 45 min workout in the fasted state?

[mikki]

when it’s been proven that the best method is what actually works for you.

yep!!!

Unless there’s a massive advantage for that 45 min workout in the fasted state?

resistance training and HIIT clear out and use up any residual glycogen (which means no insulin) and you have better access to fat stores to be used for fuel.
you may need to supplement some fat on fasting/training days. i have fatty coffee and no food before working out…whether i am EF or it’s just a regular fasted training day…usually while EF i have so much energy i annoy myself during my workout.

Why fasting is easier for some people

you might find these especially interesting (if you haven’t listened already megan ramos works with dr fung )

Episode #58 - Switching it Up with Megan Ramos

While at the Low Carb Breckenridge conference in Breckenridge, CO in February 2017, hosts Richard Morris and Carl Franklin had a conversation with Megan Ramos from Jason Fung’s clinic in Toronto, ON. Megan has thousands of hours of clinical experience dealing directly with diabetic patients who use fasting and ketogenic eating to reverse Type 2 diabetes and lose weight. Her advice, to switch up your diet more often than not, is the topic of this conversation. If you are on a ketogenic diet with …

Episode #61 - Metabolic Rate

Richard Morris @richard and Carl Franklin @carl discuss the theory of CICO (Calories In vs. Calories Out), a very popular theory about how to lose weight: If you simply create a caloric deficit by expending more calories via exercise than you eat you will lose weight. Does it work? If not, why? Does your body utilize every calorie that you eat? Are all calories burned at the same rate all the time? Does exercise increase or decrease your metabolic rate (calories out)? These are the questions tha…

i keep trying to read the “meal plan” in the posted pic and with only 20lbs to go that probably isn’t enough food on eating days and can slow your fat loss, make muscle building much more challenging, and lower your BMR…but you may not be following those food recommendations.

there are quite a few feast/fast and fasted exercise threads that i think might help (too many good ones to link)
happy reading