When does muscle mass loss start?

(TJ Borden) #21

Or, without sufficient fat stores to fuel an extended fast, your BMR could slow, and when you refeed, you might actually put more fat back on then you started with going into the fast.

#22

To your point capnbob, I am one of those outliers you mention, being a gynoid male myself !
Indeed, by all means, I should have exibited all of the symptoms of metabolic syndrome having been overweight if not obese all of my life ( I was at 120 kg for two to three years at my worst !!! ). And yet I am at 120/80 mmHg ( current “normal” guideline is 140/90 ) and fasting glycemia of 0.9 g/L ! Must be that gynoid fat distribution they’re talking about !
I should have been dead by now if it werent for that !
And yet I can’t decide whether to keep some of it or lose all of it !

(Robert C) #23

I am not a doctor - this is just what I have read, that the worry body builders have about muscle loss is not a well founded fear. But, based on your low weight and body fat percentage, I would not assume it applies as directly to you. Adding muscle is difficult and trying to bounce off of some minimum amount (i.e. a weakened state as well) might not be a good idea vs. instead trying to conserve what you have with a more conservative weight loss goal.

#24

Right…then I guess I’ll slow down when I’m one to two kilos away from my target weight.

#25

On an adjacent subject, rapid weight loss will leave some loose skin.
Do you think my body will autophage some of the loose skin to maintain protein elsewhere ?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #26

That is, in fact, categorically false. The brain does extremely well on beta-hydroxybutyrate—that is where the well-known keto sense of mental alertness and well-being comes from.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #27

According to Dr. Robert Lustig, the force behind the campaign against fructose, about 20% of obese people are perfectly metabolically healthy, and about 40% (IIRC) of those who are thin are actually metabolically deranged. The predictor of incipient diabetes and heart disease is not one’s total body fat, but the amount of visceral fat; i.e., the fat around one’s organs that may never be apparent because one appears thin. Dr. Lustig says that the technical term in medical parlance for such people is TOFI—“thin on the outside, fat on the inside.”

(Doug) #28

Cool, Paul - I couldn’t remember if there was a part of the brain that did need glucose or not. This forum alone is like taking a few college courses at once, at least diet/nutrition, biochemistry, and the nature of studies and statistics. Going over and over stuff helps me, though there’s always some “slippage,” keto mental alertness or not. You’d think there would be plenty of room for new information, were one just to clean out a fair bit of the demonstrably generally or specifically false stuff pounded into us over the past 50 years…

#29

I’m so gitty I just had to share my progress :slight_smile:
I haven’t eaten anything but salt and multivitamins since the first of May ! And I’m feeling actually better than if I were eating…it’s crazy !

My new data is
Weight: 65.4 kg
Body fat %: 12.34%

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #30

@OldDoug I forgot to clarify: yes, the brain does need a small amount of glucose (especially for the ends of certian neurons, where there is no room for mitochondria), but it loves BOHB for the vast majority of its needs. Not only that, but insulin resistance hampers mental clarity, because the brain needs a certain amount of insulin in order to function properly. That’s why ketosis helps mental clarity so much. (Just watched a great lecture by Dr. Ede on this very topic.)

#31

Doug, is it safe to assume that by now I would be in ketosis?
I haven’t experienced keto flu though but just a very mild “ketoish” breath that might actually be the coffee’s bitterness. I am losing weight crazy fast, waterweight alone cannot explain it and body fat measurements indicate a stable lean mass (within some margin of error).
I guess rapid weight loss is one of the signs of ketoadaptation?!

#32
(Ron) #33

You might find this one interesting.

#34

Thanks kid,
I’ve been on less than 1300 calories, 30g net carbs and around 60g proteins since November last. I think I can assume I am more than “ketosic”, I am “fat adapted”, right ?
I wish to have cake on my birthday, which is coming up pretty soon. I understand from the article you linked to that fat adapted people will get back to ketogenesis immediatly.
I wonder though if the HUGE, sudden carb rush ( and therefore insulin spike ) will actually be dangerous for my fat adapted self ? ( I don’t want to be knocked inconscious by my cake or anything like that !)
Should I gradually build up to my birthday cake like one week before hand or something like that? ( my birthday will be the only time I’ll go over 30g net carbs )

(TJ Borden) #35

My understanding… if you’ve been in ketosis for a while and are fat adapted, your system can handle a burst of sugar from time to time. A lot of it goes to replenish glycogen stores.

(Ron) #36

No, you are not going to damage your keto self. You might find though that what tasted so luscious back when doesn’t quite taste as grand now. You might also experience something comparable to what an alcohol binge hangover would be only without alcohol. Sugar is just as or more deadly.

#37

Exactly my thought…:slight_smile:
The “cake” experience might actually be miserable lol
What do you guys do for a “cake” ?
What do you substitute it with ?

(Ron) #38

Do a google search for Keto Cake and there are a lot of recipe’s.

Here’s one -

#39

“Erythritol”…lol
We have none of that stuff around here, being a subsistance economy and all. I can’t even check my ketosis without going to a HOSPITAL in the CAPITAL :stuck_out_tongue:
But thanks guys you’re an awesome community !
For the admins outhere kudos on the forum as well…on par with Facebook functionality wise and all…

(Ron) #40

Lol! Sorry, didn’t know where you were at. I’m assuming then that you can’t order on line either?
I guess my birthday cake would be some meat wrapped in another meat served on a tray of meat smothered in butter. :bacon::cut_of_meat: