What’s a reasonable amount of calories

(88e620bd21f89c9ddbff) #1

What’s a reasonable amount of calories?
I’ve looked at lots of macro calculators. I weigh 165, I’m 5 foot seven, I am sedentary, and I’m female. I see lots of females eating somewhere between 1200 and 1500 cal and it’s easy to see on these macro calculators that that is considered to be an OK amount, and yet when these gals post their calorie counts they are frequently told that it seems to be too little.

I know you don’t need a deficit to lose, and it’s a bad idea, but what is the correct amount. Women need a bit more protein and yet I think for my weight and height about 60 g is plenty, if I eat less than 20 g total carbohydrate then what do I need for fat grams to lose weight? If Dr. Phinney says that it should be coming from my person instead of my plate doesn’t that work out to a deficit? Just how do I reconcile this? @carl

(Door Girl) #2

I assume you are just getting started? I’m female, 5’7” and 160 as of this morning. And I have absolutely no idea how many calories I eat.

I’m really careful about knowing all the carbs I eat. In the first weeks, I was shocked about how many carbs are in the garlic and onions I love to use in cooking. (A clove of garlic has a gram of carbs. Not sure how much if any is fiber.) I tracked carbs religiously and gave myself targets for protein and fat that were pretty wide ranges.

By aggressively limiting carbs, aiming for a reasonable amount of protein, and then adding as much fat as you need to feel satisfied from your meals you can learn what your exact body needs. Protein targets range from .6 to 2 grams per kilogram of lean body mass or target body mass. It is a rough target.

X calories that are limited by your body saying Enough!!! is very different than X calories when your body is begging for more.

I have the occasional days when my hunger has me eating twice what I normally do. I roll with it, feed my body, and invariably I find that the scale jumps down after I do this. (I have a WiFi scale, so even if I don’t look at the number each morning I have a record of the weights.)

By limiting your carbs, aiming for a reasonable amount of protein (the rule of thumb of a piece of protein the size of your palm is a good method too), and adding good fats your body you will come to learn what your body needs to be happy. The first weeks I made LOTS of cream sauces out of heavy whipping cream, cream cheese and Parmesan. Lots and lots. At this point in my journey I pay attention to how I feel when my husband trims the fat off his ribeye for the dog. If I want to steal the fat, I know to add more to my meals. If I’m trimming the less delicious fat off mine I know I’m well balanced. When I need more, I’ll add a pat of butter to my food. I’ve been known to eat a bit of butter straight too. It is amazing how the first bite can taste like a luscious dessert, while a few bites later it feels like I’m eating plastic. It means I have enough, and the dog gets the rest.

Relax into it, while paying strict attention to hidden carbs. Work through any sugar craving you may have. They will go away. And be gentle with yourself as you are learning. It is a process, and stress is counterproductive.

Edited because I looked up and confirmed the protein target details.

(Cindy) #3

Whatever it takes of the right calories so that you’re not hungry. Limit carbs, eat protein and fat to satiety. It’s as easy as that.

If you use a set number of calories/day (or a macro) to dictate how much you eat each day, then you’re saying that your nutrient and energy needs are the same each day…and that’s just not true. Some days, you’ll be hungrier, some days not hungry. Part of the problem with using calories as a guide (vs hunger) is that on a hungry day, you don’t eat more because you’d be going over an arbitrary number. On not hungry days, you risk eating when you don’t really need it because, you know, you have a certain number of calories that you “can” eat.

Learn, instead, to pay attention to what your body is telling you (but ignore any screaming for carbs). For example, I was really hungry yesterday. I ate probably double what I usually eat and was still hungry. So I ate more. This morning? The scales were DOWN, not up. Some days you might want more fat…so eat it. Other days, the steak will be “calling” to you…so eat it. Just not the carbs.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

Some good thoughts here, well worth listening to. Wish I could like these posts more than once, lol!

(Carl Keller) #5

I vote for this :point_up:. Sometimes the number of calories was 2000 and other times it was 1000. What’s most important is to not go to bed hungry or stuffed. The number of calories will be self-regulated if you learn how to understand and respond appropriately to your hunger.

(Scott) #6

I don’t count calories and I lose weight. It doesn’t get any better than that.

Coming from the MFP model of calorie deficit I find keto more effective and I am no longer hungry all the time. But you may count if you wish. I would set 1200 a day as the low limit and find something above that. Let the scale tell how how effective restriction is.

(Windmill Tilter) #7

Like everybody else said, eat to satiety. I’d add the caveat though that not everybody’s satiety signals are reliable. Getting your satiety signals sorted is job #1 on keto, because if they’re not working, it’s like following a broken compass.

Common Satiety Confounders:

  • Sweeteners of any kind regardless of net carbs
  • Foods that are keto imitations of carbage (keto bread, keto pasta, keto pizza, etc)
  • Exercise: this one is the most insidious. Nothing short circuits satiety signals worse than exercise for many people. For these folks (like me) every hour in the gym is a pound of fat loss prevented.
  • Highly palatable foods like peanuts, fat bombs, dark chocolate etc

All of these have a place in keto, but I think that they should be avoided until your satiety signals are reliable and you’re losing weight at a slow and steady pace. Only once you’re making progress towards your goals should these things be added in. My strategy was to eat the same 10 or so foods every day so that food lost it’s entertainment value. Once food stoped being something I fantasized about eating, cooking, or shopping for, satiety seemed to sort itself immediately. Once you get your satiety signals working, keto seems to work like autopilot!

(Jeff Gilbertson) #8

You don’t say what you want to weigh. But, my wife is 5’6” and looks great at 125#, so I’ll assume 130 would be about right?

Per Ted Naiman, set protein grams at desired weight (130 grams). Then, if the goal is weight loss, set fat at something less than that. So, maybe 120 grams of fat.

130 G protein = 520 calories
120 G fat = 1080 calories
No carbs

Total calories = 1600

This equates to 68% fat and 32% protein

(Consensus is Politics) #9

Pretty much this. Its like the golden rule of keto. Keep carbohydrates low (or zero carb. Easier than you think), ensure you are getting the right amount of protein, and get all your energy from fat. Eat until you arent hungry. But pay attention to your body, and stop eating as soon as you feel like you are done. Dont finish off the plate by forcing yourself because tou dont want to waste food. Just save it for later.

#10

I see a lot of women posting that they’re eating well under 1200 and being told it’s too little. But what’s appropriate for those women may not be right for you: It depends on a bunch of other factors like how tall they are, how much they weight right now, how much exercise they get, whether they’ve stalled, their age, etc. Finally, there’s evidence that very low carb diets like keto will raise your RMR, but calculators haven’t really adapted to this. So calculators will underestimate how many calories you might be burning and how many you can eat and lose weight. You do need a deficit to lose weight, but on keto the math just doesn’t always add up the same.

I used this calculator and used about a 20% deficit to set a target for myself; I came up with 1400 calories along with my other macros. 1400 is NOT a rigid limit. It’s more of a flag. If I’ve eaten 1400 calories of food, it helps as a signal for me to pause and decide whether I’m still hungry or I just think I want more food. Sometimes I am hungry and I regularly eat 1600 or 1700 calories in a day. Sometimes I eat 1200. (I’m also IF, so those numbers swing even more wildly, depending on whether I’m eating or not.) Bottom line: calories are a tool, not a rule.

(Windmill Tilter) #11

This is really interesting! I’ve been trying to track down studies on the ketogenic diet and RMR, but there seems to be a dearth of good research. Do you have any links?

#12

I dropped this link into your thread on the subject the other day: Low-carb diets cause people to burn more calories. It compared people at maintenance on different types of diets. The link is to an article on the study, but the fully study citation is at the end of the article.

#13

For any woman over five feet tall, it really is too few calories. But this isn’t a problem with Keto, it’s just a problem with Diet Culture in general and how it targets women. Most women are under-eating because they are the ones most targeted by Diet Culture. They’re told to eat salads, count calories, watch their figure, obsess over the scale, remain slim, and don’t gain muscle, follow all these rules to look appealing to men — I mean to feel good about themselves. Switching to Keto, which teaches to eat until full, won’t fix that mindset overnight.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #14

I’m trying to gain a few pounds. I’m eating at least 2,000 calories, but only in one meal. I’m 5’ 2" and somewhere around 116lbs.

(Jeff Gilbertson) #15

Again, according to Ted Naiman, set your protein grams at the weight you want to be (I’ll guess 120), then adjust fat based on whether you want to lose, maintain, or gain weight.

Protein = desired weight

Fat > protein to gain weight
Fat = protein to maintain
Fat < protein to lose weight

You said you want to gain, so:

120g protein (480 calories)
125g fat (1125 calories)

Total 1605 calories
70% fat, 30% protein

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #16

Why use this approach?
What is so special about it?
Why not just eat more fat and keep protein moderate (60g)?

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My fat is usually around 85%, protein around 12%, and carbs 3% - based on calories.
Why wouldn’t the excess calories matter?

(Jeff Gilbertson) #17

Http://ptoer.com

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #18

And how would that effect glucose levels? I’m aiming at keeping glucose low and ketones high.
I’ve seen the debate about protein and gluconeogenesis…and what you posted didn’t actually answer my questions.

(Jeff Gilbertson) #19

I think the links at the bottom of what I posted answer your questions.

(Consensus is Politics) #20

There was one link in your post. It linked to a type of calculator that included something called a “Nutritional Vector Angle”. I’ve never heard of this, and haven’t seen anything describing it. More info required.