Yup which can show things so off on solid info we think we see.
good post VE!
and OP…then the ‘anti nutrients of veg’ as we know exist thru true science so do we conclude any real ‘balance’? and with those allergic or sensitive to plant foods? and omg so much variance that I can’t go there with you at all, but ‘seeing’ a maybe path? who knows, the NO factor holds no balance over the full scope as a ‘win win or not’ type factor on this level.
Do you have reason to believe those sources contain significant dietary nitrates?
While meat is a source of CoQ10, which has an effect of preserving NO levels, it doesn’t contain dietary nitrates in any significant amount.
I don’t see you all as “giving me a hard time” though I’m confused by the degree of orthorexic thinking and apparent fear of vegetables which are part of LCHF food lists!
All good. I also enjoy a good debate. 
When it comes right down to it, Nitric Oxide is a very new field of study in human biology. Seems to only date from circa 1987 so…there’s likely much to debate!
I’m far from a biochemist, so I was wondering does the body have to have nitrate to form NO or can it utilize nitrogen from any source?
I’m also not a biochemist, but from what I’ve read, of the dietary pathway, we need either nitrate or nitrite to form nitric oxide.
The nitrate is converted to nitrite via mouth and gut bacteria then our bodies are capable of converting the nitrite over to nitric oxide.
I’m less certain about the exact mechanism for NO generated by UVA exposure. I’ve seen seemingly conflicting info (from bacterial sources or from nitrite stores in skin cells).
agreed with all the above that none of us are NO specialists in this field and then again, NO against ‘all forms of functions in the body’ and the personalize it with environmental and stress levels and eating menu in life and what med troubles each individual has…we find a big ‘crazy what if’ and no true science at all if ya ask me here but debating is fun in the world of true fact, real science studies and what ifs ya know…just way too far of a draw from the first post and NO to be any kind of ‘real operating factor’ in the menus to me.
Oh, by the way:
Very interesting! I don’t know much about that particular isoform of NOS (neuronal) but it appears to work similar to eNOS via arginine to citrulline.
I used to eat lots of salads on keto, and I lost over 100 pounds. When I went carnivore is when my weight loss slowed to a crawl. I’m going to start eating salads again and see what happens.
If you wouldn’t mind, please post your results on this thread if you can? I’m very curious about your N=1 experiment! I’m doing similar right now also, having added daily spinach, kale & colorful fresh / cooked veggies to my Banting diet.
yea it would for most people cause the body is using your animal protein for healing your internal body functions more at the start and won’t put emphasis mostly about just losing weight. Time on zc, and alot of time is sometimes required for the full weight loss effects and I get it, most people want instant weight loss vs. focusing on healing and balancing hormones and such kinda and don’t want to wait 
It was hard too for me cause I lost lbs fast and then nothing. total stall out for a very long time til one day, boom, I started losing again but at a crawl pace too but I am cool with that slower pace cause zc is my life long eating plan so I accept it. Super congrats on your big loss, that is quite an accomplisment!! But going back into a keto plan if ya love it and works well for you is great!
I’ll see what I can do. I seem to be susceptible to placebo. I’ve tried many things that seem to help weight loss at first, but they seem to be rather temporary in their effects. I’m pretty sure it was all placebo.
REGULATION OF OBESITY AND INSULIN RESISTANCE BY NITRIC OXIDE
This is a very comprehensive journal article on Nitric Oxide’s impact on IR & obesity!
It makes a very handy reference guide. The only part I find objectionable is the author’s take on obesity being an energy imbalance issue where it is probably better described as an energy storage and access issue.
It does use slightly different nomenclature for the various isoforms.
NOS1 = nNOS (neuronal)
NOS2 - iNOS (inducible associated with inflammation response)
NOS3 = eNOS (endothelial)
Interesting that eNOS (and presumably dietary nitrate derived NO) suppresses GNG! That could be a handy tool in the keto toolbox!
Integration of results from these studies helps to form a model illustrating the role of NO in regulating obesity and insulin resistance (Figure 3). NO derived from NOS3 appears to have both anti-obesogenic and insulin-sensitizing properties. Its anti-obesogenic role stems from its ability to increase fat oxidation in peripheral tissues such as skeletal muscle, liver, and adipose tissue. As mentioned above, there is evidence that it also decreases lipid synthesis in liver. The impact of NOS3 on glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity is underpinned by its capacity to increase transport of insulin and glucose to key peripheral tissues such as skeletal muscle and to regulate gluconeogenesis. Additionally, there may be implications for NOS3-mediated HISS release, which appears to enhance the vasodilatory properties of insulin. That NOS3 prevents hyperinsulinemia in two independent genetic gain-of-function studies [122, 337] further suggests that it could impact glucose metabolism by modulating insulin release. Other isoforms of NOS appear to promote deleterious changes in metabolism. In the brain, evidence suggests that NOS1-derived NO promotes hyperphagia. The NOS2 isoform promotes insulin resistance in both liver and skeletal muscle and is critical in inflammatory responses in multiple tissues, most notably, the adipose organ. Counter to NOS3, NOS2 appears to promote gluconeogenesis, and NOS2 has remarkable effects on cytokine-mediated insulin secretion. From these studies, it is apparent that NO is one of the most critical features regulating metabolism, body composition, and insulin sensitivity. Harnessing its beneficial metabolic actions is an exciting prospect for combatting metabolic disease.
There are 3 articles here, all liberally annotated, one after the other most recent first.
The following links are to the individual articles:
What you’re addressing in this topic is essentially nitrogen balance. Humans evolved to manage nitrogen balance very efficiently in a state of ketosis. Amber O’Hearn addresses this from an evolutionary and physiological perspective. I think it helps put this into a larger context.
Loma Linda has religious reasons for wanting to promote vegetarianism and veganism. I mistrust their objectivity on the topic. The Seventh-Day Adventist agenda has been exposed in Australia, where the church has freely admitted what it is trying to achieve. Belinda Fettke has turned up some disturbing evidence in this connection.
It generally gets the nitrogen for making NO by deaminating amino acids, is my understanding. This is why there is an inevitable persistent loss of amino acids, requiring a certain amount of protein daily in the diet.
