Video: An Open Debate on Fruit Sugar


(Jeanne Wagner) #1

@richard and anyone else who is well-educated in the science of sugars, I would love you to chime in on this. This video is 34 minutes long, so it is a lot of time to devote to this. I understand if it is too much.

Someone I know who is a big fruit proponent, and a vegan (and super skinny - not that that is entirely relevant) has posted this and said something along the lines of ‘every time someone says something bad about fruit sugars, I always come back to this video for reference to refresh my knowledge about this subject.’


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

(Bob M) #3

I have not watched either of these videos, but the problem could be that people are speaking past each other. On my Twitter feed, there was a conversation about fruit and multiple people (eg, Dr. Ann Childers and Dr. Unwin, among others) who showed their CGM results after eating fruit, and it was brutal. Blood sugar out of control.

On the other hand, the vegans were countering with their own blood sugar showing nothing much happened and they had low blood sugar during the day.

The problem: if you have BS issues with fruit, you have real issues. If you don’t, you might not.


(Jeanne Wagner) #4

Yeah that was addressed in the video. He says that yes BG would skyrocket but after just a couple of weeks it would level out at in the range of 100-200 (still too high in my opinion, and I have only recently reversed Type II diabetes). There is a LOT talked about and discussed in this video. Sometimes it is extremely difficult to listen to this kind of video no matter how long it is because the utter bullsh!t they spout but this time was different. That is why I asked those who know a lot about sugar science to chime in. In my opinion, it needs a higher level of knowledge than myself to dissect what he is saying.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.

I think the so-called ‘modern’ metabolic diseases, primarily obesity, TD2 and CVD, but most others as well, demonstrate beyond doubt that fruit, with it’s relatively high sugar content and relatively low nutrient content, is probably part of the problem not part of the solution. As Fetke points out, living without what we currently know as ‘fruit’ was the human experience for the better part of 2 million years.


(Jeanne Wagner) #6

The guy in this video uses science to talk proactively about fruit sugars. That’s why it’s necessary to listen to the video, and those who understand fruit sugar science can hopefully address the claims.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

The first thing Morse does is appeal to authority, his own. That’s a big red flag. Fettke on the other hand just starts talking about science, not about himself.


#8

I couldn’t listen to the whole thing. All I heard was a bunch of stream of consciousness ramblings without specifics. If he wants to debate Dr. Seyfried about tumors and sugar, I’d love to be a fly on the wall. Oh, and kids like sugary fruits more than vegetables. Not surprised. They also love candy. And if he thinks glucose between 100-200 is fine, then…IDK what to say.


(bulkbiker) #9

Fructose is a major contributor to NAFLD… goes straight to the liver for processing into fat… if you want visceral fat build up eat lots of fruit.
Get T2 and get fat.


(April Harkness) #10

Happened to me. During one crazy period in my life i wemt fruitarian. Morning was a bowl of melons. Lunch was a bunch of bananas. Dinner was apples. Less than a month into being a fruitarian, i ended up with abs made of flab.it happened as quick as losing weight on keto.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #11

:green_apple::banana::cherries::kiwi_fruit::peach::watermelon::apple::pear::grapes::mango::pineapple::strawberry::tangerine::grapes:

image

That’s all I have to say. :cowboy_hat_face:


(April Harkness) #12

I became very sick on fruitarian. Nauseous. Vomiting and severe bloating. I saw the Freelee chic who ate 30 bananas a day. It was stupid of me to try. Now i am carnivore!


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13

The effect depends on the fruit. Apples, for example, contain sucrose, glucose (dextrose), and fructose. Remember that a sucrose molecule consists of a glucose molecule bonded to a fructose molecule.

The fructose has no effect on either serum glucose or serum insulin, because it is metabolised in the liver. The sucrose is cleaved immediately into its two moieties, and all the glucose in the apple enters the bloodstream straightaway. The fructose is transported by the portal vein directly to the liver.

The effect of glucose on insulin is well-known to anyone who hangs around these forums. The effect of fructose on the liver is documented by Robert Lustig, M.D., Ph.D., who has published books and given many lectures (recorded and available on YouTube) on fructose metabolism. The problem with fructose is the low rate at which the liver can handle it. Stay below that level and everything is fine; exceed it, and the liver starts making and storing fat droplets, which is the beginning of visceral adiposity and hepatic insulin resistance. Fructose also travels to the brain and messes with the reward centre (nucleus accumbens) and the dopamine pathway, which is why sugar has an addictive effect on about 20% of the population. This is all basic science.

Dr. Lustig maintains that whole fruit, with all the fibre it contains, is safe to eat, because the fibre slows down the rate of absorption of the fructose to what the liver can handle. Fruit juice, on the other hand, slams the liver, because the fibre has all been destroyed in the juicing process. No one can eat enough apples fast enough for the fructose to be problematic, but a glass of apple juice dumps all the fructose and glucose into our body practically at once. We also know which fruits are the highest in fibre, namely blueberries and strawberries; low-sugar fruits such as olives and avocadoes are also fine. Nuts are iffy.

Sugar/carb addicts are well advised to be extremely careful with their sugar intake, even while staying below their carb limit. I doubt that a very occasional apple, orange, or peach is going to ruin anyone metabolically, but it’s not worth risking a binge, if one is vulnerable. Nor is it worth giving oneself fatty liver disease from eating too much fruit. (Since ethanol and fructose are metabolised by the same pathway in the liver, alcoholic fatty liver disease and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease are actually the same condition. I’m not sure there is any point in retaining the distinction. The cure in both cases is to stop stressing the liver with alcohol and fructose. And to keep that carbohydrate intake low!)

There is some question about how much fruit our ancestors ate, and how much sugar it used to contain back then. Don’t believe either side of the debate; I don’t believe it’s possible to know. In any case, it is not likely that our ancestors got sweetness in any quantity, over the two million years of human evolution, and fruit is available only for a short time of the year in most climates.

Interesting fact: the executives who ran the sugar plantations in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries were noticeably more afflicted with metabolic problems than the slaves who worked the fields, because sugar cane is very woody, so the slaves who gnawed the canes got comparatively little sugar, whereas the bosses were allowed the finished product. Diabetes, gout, and liver disease used to be the privilege of the upper classes, until the development of modern refining methods in the late nineteenth century brought the cost of white sugar, white flour, and white rice within reach of the poor.


(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #14

Back during my hard core Paleo years, I would get onto a pretty big binge on watermelon, and put on 12-15 lbs in 4 to 6 weeks, changing nothing else about my diet. Then have to starve myself back down to 4000 cals a day for a few weeks to lose it again…


#15

Fructose also amplifies the insulin reaction to glucose in the same meal via the mechanism of gut incretins. As do some artificial sweetners. So mixing the two is worse than ether by itself.


(Trish) #16

OMG! I just had a eureka moment at about 14 minutes into this lecture. All my life if I ate a solitary apple because I was peckish and wanted a snack I would get so hungry right after. I noticed this so often and always thought how weird or abnormal that was. Now I learn that fructose inhibits leptin and stimulates grehlin and eureka it all makes sense. It’s silly but this is making me do the happy dance. :kissing::rofl::boom:


(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #17

Where before, you were doing the hungry dance :slightly_smiling_face:

I didn’t know the scientific facts of the matter, but when I was a kid, id get hungry, and my Mom would say, “We are having dinner in a couple hours… Just have an apple”… But even then, I’d tell her, “That wont help at all… It will just make me hungrier”…
I didn’t know why, but I guess I was right.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #18

I didn’t know that. Not good! Thanks for pointing it out, Carol. :bowing_man:


(Jeanne Wagner) #19

Thank you for listening to at least a good deal of it. I did listen to the whole thing, and because of what he said it really made me wonder about some things; HOWEVER, my very first instinct was to think it was all pseudoscience that he was spouting… the whole deal about fructose not affecting the growth of cancer (he was downright aggravated that people thought that) and it instead actually healing people (he talks about all his cases) was bizarre. I guess I just don’t know much about the ‘science’ that the vegans and fruitatarians are using to back up their eating ways.


(bulkbiker) #20

Video lost me at “sugar is essential for life”
which as we all know is complete and utter bull…