Trying to figure this "Ketone" thing out

[Chika22]

I started the Keto lifestyle back in August 2018. I wasnt focussing on “ketones” and testing at that time, i was working on switching my mindset from a low fat diet, avoid fats! to “eat more fat, fats are good” and getting the eating/cooking right.
I got that down now… (I think! Lol)

My next step, I just purchased the Keto-mojo, started testing glucose and ketones. In all my tests the glucose in the morning/fasting has been around 89 and in the afternoon 86/87. Ketones have been in the am 0.7 and in the afternoon 1.1 to 1.6.
A snapshot of my eating yesterday, I had BPC in the morning ate lunch around 3pm (3 eggs, slice of cheese, nutritional yeast, and a little piece of fish) between breakfast and lunch I ran errands had a cheese stick and 4 Brazil nuts. Then in the afternoon around 5 had another BPC (I rarely do that because of the calories but felt like it…lol) the for dinner around 7:30, had some pho (no noodles obviously) came home had a couple fat bombs and was done eating for the day.
A couple hours later before I went to sleep I tested my glucose 87 and ketones 1.1 so… All good, eating out and whatever they put in pho didn’t kick me out of ketosis!!
Took magnesium supplement and my probiotics, went to bed.

Now my dilemma… This am I woke up and when tested, my ketones were at 0.4, I was out of ketosis .
What kicked me out? The probiotic? The magnesium?
I know about the dawn phenomenon, my glucose was at 89 this morning, which isn’t high…
I’m feeling quite defeated… I dont cheat, my eating is under control, I work out, I’m not diabetic or prediabetic.
It frustrates me that my ketones remain low and now out of ketosis

What am I doing wrong?

[Shortstuff]

0.4mmol is NOT out of ketosis. Levels are up and down all the time and quite often when you’re adapted you’ll see lower levels due to your body having a better idea how many ketones to make.

Relax and enjoy your continued success.

[Chika22]

Oh cool! Good to know!

Everywhere I read they have anything 0.5 and Under far from “ideal”, 0.6 to 1.5 as light nutritional ketosis, 1.6 to 3 as optimal nutritional ketosis.

[tdean]

What am I doing wrong?

You’re not doing anything wrong other than worrying about it. The definition of 'Nutritional Ketosis" depends on who you read.

Dr Stephen Phinney says its anything from 0.5mmol/L up to 3.0mmol/L, Allie is correct 0.4 mmol/L means you are still in ketosis, its just not quite in the nutritional range first thing in the morning but that happens to me too, a lot depends on what you ate the night before how many carbs, also another factor is the ketone reading is an indicator of how many ketones are left in your blood. Your body has used some of them for metabolic healing and other important functions in the organs. That’s actually a good sign. Keep it up and well done.

Here’s another great article that I go to for information on ketosis in relation to weight-loss which I assume you are interested in also. It goes into great detail about other factors affecting ketones.

https://blog.virtahealth.com/weight-loss-ketogenic-diet/

[PaulL]

Also bear in mind the accuracy rate of your meter. I’m not familiar with the Keto Mojo, but some meters have an error range as high as ± 20%, so that a reading of 5.0 means that your serum β-hydroxybutyrate could be anywhere from 3.0 to 6.0.

[juice]

You’re not doing anything wrong other than worrying about it. The definition of 'Nutritional Ketosis" depends on who you read.

And who you are, and how you measure it!

It’s variable city.

[tdean]

And who you are, and how you measure it!

Exactly right Mic, genetics makes a difference we’re not all the same.

[juice]

Exactly right Mic, genetics makes a difference we’re not all the same.

Next blog post: “Ketones, ignore the [spoiler]bloody[/spoiler] things”

[Daisy]

Everywhere I read they have anything 0.5 and Under far from “ideal”, 0.6 to 1.5 as light nutritional ketosis, 1.6 to 3 as optimal nutritional ketosis.

Everyone is different and some people track lower than others. Remember what you are measuring are an overspill of ketones you aren’t using so it can also indicate you are getting more efficient if you start tracking lower without changing anything. As you have already noted, ketones tend to read lower in the morning too. Yes, it can indicate that something you ate means you are producing fewer ketones but you are still producing them so don’t sweat it

[LeCheffre]

.5 is an arbitrary number that Dr. Phinney and Professor Volek essentially came to an agreement on, based on the available data at the time.

.1 is still “in.” Professor Bikman has talked to Dr. Phinney about it, and is pretty sure even .1 is still fine.

But I’m with Juice, eat the right stuff and let the ketones sort themselves. Two BPCs in a day, and multiple fat bombs of unknown description. Eat some real food, mate.

[tdean]

.5 is an arbitrary number that Dr. Phinney and Professor Volek essentially came to an agreement on, based on the available data at the time.

They also seem to be recommending 50g carbs as the new norm, have you read their reasoning for that anywhere? I know 20g carbs gets you into ketosis much quicker and is the recommended level for newbies but will 50g ever become the new standard? Thoughts?

[LeCheffre]

I personally use 40g, but this is a proven winner for me. 30 was the Protein Power number. 55 was Protein Power for folks with little to no weight to lose. 20 was Atkins induction, with the intent that you slowly dialed up carbs to find what worked for loss and maintenance.

I have no skin in the game. I consider myself a ketogenic dieter, but I don’t “Do Keto.” 50 will likely work for healthy people. 50 wont work for folks with T2DM, probably.

[Bellyman]

“Ketones, ignore the things”

^^^^^^^^ This!

[Chika22]

Next blog post: “Ketones, ignore the things”

I’m about to write that one!! LOL
Thanks!

[tdean]

I have no skin in the game. I consider myself a ketogenic dieter, but I don’t “Do Keto.” 50 will likely work for healthy people. 50 wont work for folks with T2DM, probably.

Yes I keep forgetting to add that line for T2DMs, it probably wouldn’t be best for someone who has metabolic issues to repair but yes I am writing from a non-diabetic view, apologies to anyone who took my comment as gospel.

One of the problems I’ve had since my BGL dropped is that if I go OMAD or even TMAD my blood sugar can drop below 3.9 mmol/L which is below standard diabetic guidelines and considered hypoglycemic. I don’t wish to get in to an argument with fasters (and I am using IF) who have had similar or lower readings than that but for me I found that if I sit on 50g and spread them across three meals that keeps my BGL from ever going below 4.0 mmol/L, however, it means that my ketone production drops so its a bit of a compromise.

It’s something I’m going to ask my ketogenic doctor about when I see him next, get his opinion. Thanks for your reply @LeCheffre those numbers have been noted for future reference.

[juice]

for me I found that if I sit on 50g and spread them across three meals that keeps my BGL from ever going below 4.0 mmol/L, however, it means that my ketone production drops so its a bit of a compromise.

N=1, right?

[Chika22]

But I’m with Juice, eat the right stuff and let the ketones sort themselves. Two BPCs in a day, and multiple fat bombs of unknown description. Eat some real food, mate.

LOL!!! I promise I do eat, it just happened that day I wanted another BPC.

I’m taking time off work so I’ve focused on being a keto chef!! (joke…) I have more time to spend in the kitchen trying recipes. I’ve enjoyed it so far!
I usually have two main meals, I’m never hungry in the morning, no matter if on Keto or not. First meal at 1pm and dinner around 6ish.
Sometimes i snack in between sometimes I don’t, all depends on my activity level on each day.
The fat bombs are small coconut oil chocolate and almond butter, 1.4g p /0.7g c / 7g f each.
Cheers!!

[LeCheffre]

The fat bombs are small coconut oil chocolate and almond butter, 1.4g p /0.7g c / 7g f each.

I wouldn’t eat it as a staple, but lots of keto folks would. And maybe some of them wonder why their progress has stalled or they’re not seeing the results they’d like. But, as I said above, I diet ketogentically, but don’t “do keto.” I’m more of a keto-paleo-dilettante.

[Chika22]

I wouldn’t eat it as a staple, but lots of keto folks would.

To each it’s own… Not everyone has the same goals, the same reasons to embark this lifestyle. For some the strict dieting works for some it doesn’t, some prefer to push the limit on their carbs and it works for them, some prefer to be more conservative, we all have different “tricks” that work depending on our personalities.

some of them wonder why their progress has stalled or they’re not seeing the results they’d like

I also track my macros with an app. You may not do this but for some of us beginners this works until we adapt well to the lifestyle

Personally I’m not trying to lose weight, as I said I’m just trying to figure out this Ketone thing…

[Chika22]

will 50g ever become the new standard? Thoughts?

At the moment my focus is not in weight loss, I’m interested in all the health benefits associated with Keto and my only worry with 20gr of carbs/day is that it’s not enough carbs in order to get the daily nutrients needed directly from your food, supplements are required in this case. I would love to stop feeding the pharmaceutical industry and not have to take a cocktail of pills everyday…

Weather 50gr is what is “established” and the new standard, wouldn’t that be as @juice said, everyone is different some people could tolerate it and for some it could be too many carbs?