Trying Carnivore need advice/answers

(Richard M) #1

I am little confused on this Carnivore diet. How can I lose weight if I am eating 2-3 meals day? Regardless if it is just meat. I believe the reason I lost so much weight is by doing Keto. I was eating OMAD along with fasting for multiple days.
On Carnivore how am I ever going to lose more fat or be in Ketosis when I am constantly eating and I don’t give my body a chance to use my my fat reserve?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

I’m sure others will comment soon enough. Carnivore is simply a subset of keto where you eat only animal source food. You can continue OMAD, fasting and whatever else you did - sans plant food.

As for ketosis, it’s eliminating carbs that keeps glucose and insulin low enough to maintain ketosis. So if you’re still not eating carbs, you’re still in ketosis.

(Richard M) #3

Ok. I did not know that. Thanks.
I have not had any vegetables for over two weeks. Dr. Ken Berry said he has more fat than protein. Dr. Berry mentioned that dairy is part of carnivore. If that is the case than I have been doing carnivore for a while now. Again, I am so new to this and I watch and read so much that I get confused.
I was wondering if anyone else had still knuckles and/or trigger fingers? I have both. Will this diet help them?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #4

This was posted in another topic and generated some discussion which you might find helpful:


All I would add is something I just noticed about this graphic: ‘carb limit 30-50g per day’ for plain keto. I suspect that’s total. Phinney puts the total at 50g max in the hopes that the subsequent net is around 20 grams. In the interest of maintaining ketosis I would not go anywhere near 50 grams of carbs total. If you have any degree of insulin resistance, and most of us do so from years/decades eating SAD, then keep carbs the lower the better. The less carbs the less plant food you’re going to eat as a consequence.

(Richard M) #5

I am trying to stay between 0-5 grams of carb a day. no vegetables and fruit. I am done eating for the day and it is at 0. I suppose if I was a true carnivore I would just consume meat and water. But I can’t stop thinking about what was said about whatever you eat, no matter how much, that it will spike insulin and keep me out of ketosis.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

This is not true. @ctviggen has years of glucose data/plots that show this is not true. I eat around 2400-2600 cals per day, in the ratio of 1.48:1 fat:protein grams. I usually eat 3 times per day and sometimes 4. I’ve been in ketosis for 99% of the past 4+ years. Staying in ketosis is easy peasy as long as you keep the carbs down. At your level of carb non-consumption you’re AOK!

(Richard M) #7

Do I need to get a ketosis monitor (not sure the name)? If not, how else would I know?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

As @PaulL is wont to say: if you’re eating sub-20 grams of carbs per day and are still conscious, you’re in ketosis.

(Richard M) #9

Thank you

(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #10

I’m not following the logic here. If you were in ketosis when eating less than 20 g/day of carbohydrate, why wouldn’t you be in ketosis when eating 0 g/day of carbohydrate? The body uses its fat reserve when your insulin/glucagon ratio is low enough to permit fat cells to release fatty acids. If you are not eating carbohydrate, your insulin/glucacon ratio is ipso facto low, so you ought to be able to metabolise stored fat. Unless you are not eating enough, and your body is in famine mode, of course. Dr. Phinney claims to have data showing that even though we are eating fat to satiety, our metabolism speeds up sufficiently to metabolise both dietary fat and excess stored fat.

He may be talking in terms of calories. If you eat 10 g of fat and 10 g of protein, you are eating 69% fat and 31% protein in terms of calories. (One gram of fat = 9 calories, one gram of protein = 4 calories.)

For some people it is, because its not a plant food. And he’s talking mostly about heavy cream, aged cheeses, and yoghurt-type dairy foods, not milk, which contains a lot of sugar. But there are people who cannot tolerate dairy because of problems with one or more of the dairy proteins, and they eliminate it from their carnivore diet.

Protein has an effect on insulin, true, but when we don’t eat carbohydrate, the increased insulin is matched by increased glucagon, so the ratio of insulin to glucagon stays low. Fat has an absolutely minimal effect on insulin. We have to have a certain amount of insulin in order to live; the problem comes when a high-carb diet elevates insulin and keeps it elevated. The high blood sugar and high insulin both cause a great deal of damage over time.

(Doug) #11

I hope so, Richard. For a lot of people, cutting out or greatly reducing carbohydrates makes for less inflammation, and when the tendons start feeling better it can help with ‘trigger finger,’ anyway, right?

Do your hands look and feel any different yet? It makes a difference for me - eating “clean and really low-carb” makes them slightly smaller, less “full,” tight, swollen, and painful. If I eat a lot of carbs, I get sort of a “hangover” from it, feeling more swollen/bloated, and generally pretty crappy - I think this is struggling with higher insulin and blood sugar.

The benefits of lower insulin are many, as well, and sometimes it takes a while for the body to head back toward normal.

more info if you need!


What does it have to do with anything? I would STARVE on carnivore with 2-3 meals sometimes… I eat 6 meals then.

Number of meals say little about our energy balance and carnivore is different from eating more carbs. I always, always had biggish meals (1000+ kcal for my first meal, 800+ for my second) but on carnivore they often become super tiny.

You can keep your OMAD if that is best for you, sure. I couldn’t eat 2 big meals and expect fat-loss either, no matter the woe, there is no magic.

Why would you eat constantly? No one eats constantly… But it’s possible your eating window becomes much bigger on carnivore. Or not. Some people do OMAD on carnivore. I have 1-6 meals when I do carnivore (1 is very rare but happened) and sometimes my eating window is bigger than 8 hours! (IF is natural to me so it’s very disconcerting but what can I do? A decent calorie deficit is fine
but I must avoid starving. Not like I could to eat too little, I just get hungry and I eat then.)

So, fat-loss. If you have fat to lose and you choose your food items well, it’s quite possible that you can’t eat too much even if you try. I have this. I can eat a ton, even when satiated - but not on carnivore with proper food, it’s amazing. I get satisfied with the right amount. I never will lose fat at a decent speed in my life, I pretty much know that but I definitely won’t overeat while sticking to carnivore or anything close to it.
Not everyone is like this and even I have not satiating food items able to bumping my calories (they have their role) but just avoiding plant carbs can be very effective if we are sensitive to that. I am. They mess with my hunger/satiation/satisfaction signs epically. So without them it’s another world.

Yeah, I never got this. I could do 50g total with 50g net and 3g net alike… The first case isn’t ketosis for me.
But it turned out ketosis may not be enough. I feel a different person on very low-carb, it’s nothing like my old keto with too much carbs even though reaching fat adaptation was no problem.
These numbers are all very very individual. There are no general limits, people should experiment for the sake of their own health and well-being instead of waiting some One True Way with specific rules, it doesn’t exist.

I personally didn’t experience that my carb intake matters on carnivore. Even lactose just bumps my calories but it doesn’t mess with me like plant carbs on my old keto. Of course I don’t overdo lactose, that sounds a bad idea. Carbs from eggs and organ meat? I never noticed it would do a thing.

But everyone should try and see what items are their allies.

Fat:protein ratio is individual too and our energy need matters a lot there… I wouldn’t want to eat 6 times as much protein as I need but I don’t need to be afraid of needing so much energy :smiley:
I still eat more fat than protein, obviously in weight, who doesn’t eat more fat than protein in calories? :smiley: But I don’t eat really fatty, 65-75% is my thing, not 80+ :slight_smile: The ratio isn’t important in general, it may be important for the one in question but it easily changes as circumstances change.

(Richard M) #14

Look different but stiff. Especially when I hold and item for a short period of time they get stiff. With trigger fingers they stay in the bent position until i move them they don’t move freely. And I am losing hand strength.


could be oxalates and other toxins leaving your body.
stiff. inflammation. oxalate dump.
still normal on zc thru adaption.