Trouble fasting after 5 months of having it easy

(Jason Christianson) #1

When I first started fasting it was relatively easy, right off the bat I began with 5 days fasts in the end of Jan '18. Because at the time I wasn’t eating keto during my feast days the first day or two were a bit more difficult than they could have been as I was going in/out of ketosis as I began and ended my fasts. I would feel awesome fasting, actually better fasting than eating hands down. Anyway, fast forward to now and I’m just having one heck of a time fasting.

Couple of weeks ago, I failed at starting an EF. I whined about it here. Talking to Angel, he recommended mixing things up. So I had a couple of short, 2 day fasts. Last week I couldn’t fast at all. I chalked that up to protein overload at a brazilian steakhouse that Sunday. Well I had a great keto week and weekend and figured I’d fast Mon-Tue then Thurs-Fri this week due to the 4th of july holiday and steak is calling.

Going into my fast yesterday morning, blood ketones were up at 1.8 and blood sugar was good (don’t have number handy). Throughout the day fasting yesterday I started feeling terrible and got worse from there. Actually, ended up going to bed at 7PM and sleeping till 5:30 this morning because of terrible headache and lack of energy. By the time I went to bed last night, ketones don’t register on meter or pee stick and blood sugar was up to 150-something.

Woke up this morning feeling a little better but my energy is crashing throughout the morning and headache is coming back with a vengeance.

Getting plenty of water and salt. Other than a coffee in the morning (black), nothing but water and salt. Last night I did have an avocado with olive oil to see if it helped with the lousy feeling. It did not.

So I’ll have to debug this with IDM as well. But with so much experience here I thought I’d throw my experience out for discussion.

(Karen) #2

Yes please! Let us know what you learn, and hope you feel better soon.

K

#3

I’m also curious about what you gather from IDM. The only two things that come to mind (but you probably already know these): as you get closer to your goal size and have less fat on you, you’ll often have more trouble fasting because you just don’t have the fat stores to drawn on when you’re not eating*. Also a lot of things influence sugar and insulin regulation (sleep, exercise, and especially stress) so it stands to reason that sometimes fasting is easy and sometimes it’s not. I don’t know if there’s enough difference in the rest of your life to explain the change from January to now?

Have you tried adding fat during your fasting days? That will likely slow down some of the benefits (autophagy) but it should still be great metabolically since fat doesn’t have much effect on sugar and insulin levels.

*there’s actually a formula on here for figuring out how much energy you can get from body fat and at what point - in terms of bf% - you need to supplement. I haven’t found it to be true for myself (based on the calculations I wouldn’t be able to fast), and I think that it’s based on a study of sugar-burners so I’m not sure how much it applies to keto folks - but still, some folks find it useful

(Allie) #4

I remember something being discussed about how sometimes when fasting the process will eat into pockets of glucose stored in the fat cells which results in high blood sugar readings and low ketones… cannot for the life of me remember which episode it was, but am sure it was one of the Fasting Talk with Jimmy Moore podcasts.

(Jason Christianson) #5

Well, I am still about a hundred pounds overweight, so I don’t think it’s a lack of fat that’s the issue, lol… I currently weigh in at 287. Actually, I’m above 300 lbs right now. I jumped up 20 lbs the day after I hit 287 and ended that fast. Stupid water retention.

I do sometimes have some fat while fasting if I’m having difficulty fasting. Usually it helps get through a tough time. My guess is those are times when stress is affecting me and I just need some transient help. However, this past week fat has not helped at all. If anything, having that avocado last night really made me feel worse because my stomach also got very upset.

Right at this moment I’m not hungry, stomach is quite queasy but I feel awful. Low energy, bad headache, trouble focusing - head fog. I had 10 1/2 hour of sleep and I feel like I could go back to bed and sleep all day long. The thought of eating anything, even fat, makes me want to hurl.

#6

oh, dear - I have no idea except that if you are queasy you probably shouldn’t eat, and maybe there’s just something moving through your system. Sounds almost like you have a bug.
Or some kind of detox reaction? I know that phrase is overused (and misused), but we are burning through old cells when we fast, so…?
You specifically mentioned water and salt in the first post, but is it worth looking at the amounts again? I heard someone on here mention 2 tsp/day of salt (which is a lot…). But I think if it’s salt you need, you’ll feel better pretty quickly after having a small amount.
Good luck! I hope it resolves soon.

(Beth) #7

Wow, how are you feeling now?
I agree with Madeleine, I think your body is fighting off a bug. Did you go back to bed? Listen to your body!
I fast pretty frequently and that doesn’t sound like a normal reaction to fasting.

(Jason Christianson) #8

I gave in and had lunch. Carnitas salad. I feel perfect now. But that pisses me off, another failed fast.

(Beth) #9

Nah, the fail would be ignoring the signals and making yourself sicker. Your body is telling you it’s happy. There’s always another fast opportunity tomorrow. Well, maybe not tomorrow. :grinning:

#10

It sounds like what you’re experiencing is mostly a mental (rather than physiological) challenge. I know that after months of doing one meal a week, I simply got burnt out and had a hard time finding the “will” to block fast. Fortunately, it happened when I was close enough to my goal that I didn’t mind the slower speed. I switched to eating according to my BG reading, so the amount of fasting varies according to meal composition, ranging from 1-5 days. One of the things you could try is transitioning down from IF to EF. Start at two meals a day (no snacks) for a week, then go down to OMAD for a week, then maybe ADF, and eventually back to block fasting.

Additonal ways to increase adherence to a diet:

  1. Post a before picture someplace where you will see it multiple times every day
  2. Track daily a metric that’s important to you
  3. Keep a food journal by taking a quick pic of every you eat before it goes into your mouth
  4. Break big goals into smaller goals that can be accomplished within a 90 day (or less) window
  5. Find a partner (virtual or real) to do this journey with you
(Jason Christianson) #11

Well that’s the cool thing, Keep calm (or try, lol) and Keto on…

FWIW, I’m starting a new fast today. Looking forward to feeling good again :wink:

(Beth) #12

Yep, KCFO!
I’m on Day 4. Amazing how much better my energy and clarity are when fasting. Wondering why I don’t feel that good eating? After I eat I just want to take a nap…

(icky) #13

Are you checking your other electrolytes?

I see you’re getting plenty of salt, but that’s not the only electrolyte to look out for, by far…

Electrolytes are tricky.

Not only does each electrolyte have to be balanced, but they also have to be balanced with each other.

Salt (sodium) is also an electrolyte.

Here’s the important electrolytes and the names for having too much (hyper) or too little (hypo) of each:

calcium: hypercalcemia and hypocalcemia
chloride: hyperchloremia and hypochloremia
magnesium: hypermagnesemia and hypomagnesemia
phosphate: hyperphosphatemia or hypophosphatemia
potassium: hyperkalemia and hypokalemia
sodium: hypernatremia and hyponatremia

The thing seems to be that if for example you are getting “too much” of one electrolyte (lets call it Electrolyte A) then your body will down-regulate that electrolyte level by making you pee a lot.

That has that electrolyte and water flushing out of your system, but also the other electrolytes.

So now, for example your Electrolyte A levels would be fine again, but you’re deficient in the other electrolytes, will get those deficiency symptoms (a lot of them seem to be fatigue/ dizziness and muscle related like cramps, including heart muscle) and will then need to supplement those other electrolytes.

You can get these symptoms from any of the electrolytes and you can get them EITHER from having too much OR from having too little OR from them being out of balance with each other.

So you need to try and find out which electrolyte it is and whether you need more or less of it.

Electrolytes are really powerful body chemistry.

(icky) #14

Also, I come from a background of having done several EF’s per year over the last 10 years.

My experience with fasting is that it’s not like using a household appliance - switch it on when you want to use it, switch it off again, when you’re done.

I find I REALLY need to listen to my body about when it wants to fast and when it doesn’t.

“Forcing” a fast, although my body doesn’t want to, almost always fails.

I also find it almost impossible to fast (especially EF) during times of stress.

My body really, really tells me clearly when it wants to fast and when it doesn’t. And I know there’s not point pushing against that.

However, with the strong symptoms you’ve described, I do think it may be more than your body just not wanting to fast right now, like possibly electrolytes or a similar issue.

I am also a big fan of supporting your body during fasts, especially if you run into trouble.

Currently, in your situation, I would be applying any cheats available, because what matters is your body’s relationship to fasting in the LONG TERM.

I understand the frustration of a given fast failing or needing to be “broken”.

But fasting shouldn’t be done for its own sake, nor, ideally should it be done “for weight loss”.

The goal of fasting is to make your body healthy and feel good.

Yes, weightloss CAN be a component of that.

But when you aim for weightloss “too much” then you stop listening to the signals of your body and start “misusing” fasts.

If 12 hour fasts are all your body wants to do right now, then go with that.

I think that we “teach” our bodies either positive or negative experiences with fasting.

The more negative fasting experiences you expose your body to by “forcing” it, the more your body will “reject” fasting and try to fight it, IMO.

You want fasting to be your body’s friend, so make sure you don’t approach fasting in a way that stresses your body and that makes it think that fasting is the enemy.

If you are having trouble, go back to basics. Start from square 1 as if you’ve never fasted before in your life and slowly work with IF’s (eg 12 hours) until your body starts to be happy with fasting again and relaxes into the process and trusts that it will be okay “without food”.

(icky) #15

Also, as Madeleine says, the amount of salt needed on Keto can vary a lot and can be pretty counter-intuitive.

Early on, I needed way less salt than people were saying I needed with keto.

Over the weeks/ months, I’m finding my salt intake now needs to slowly increase.

Here’s some info on the diuretic effect of Keto and on how much or how little salt you might be needing:

You’ll need to use trial and error to see whether you need to up-regulate or down-regulate your salt intake during fasting.

(Jason Christianson) #16

That fast didn’t last long. Unbearable headache by mid-afternoon. Cue string of expletives…

(Jason Christianson) #17

I will have to look into other electrolytes, however…

I take 500mg of magnesium each night before bed for leg cramps,
Getting the sodium and chloride through salt.
Also, I have tried taking an electrolyte cap called Hy Lite from amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074N7KTJK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1

It’s got a mix of electrolytes, but if I take it I’d better not be beyond a sprinting distance of a toilet for the next several hours.

(Jason Christianson) #18

A heck of a lot of great info to sort out, thank you! I will be referring back to this as I debug the issue.