Transformation ....Extended Fasting..and the after Questions?

(km) #1

Transformation:

I will keep my story short started @217.7 lbs /270-330mg/Dl/5 diabetic pills/1 thyroid/1 statin/ on feb 27th
started Keto with 3 meals a day for 1 month than 2 meals(BF/DINNER) for a week for a month IF with 23:1(@dinner) from last 7 days Extended fasting
Effects:
by 4-5 weeks got Rid of all Diabetic meds
by 7 -8 week got rid of all Thyroid meds/statin
by End of week my BG are almost Normal but what ever itretion i tried my Fasting sugar in the morning is 110 (night generally is around 90-95 before sleeping ) and creeps up to 140 by 12:30 and then by 1:30 it goes below100 and stay normal thru the day (this with eating BF/Without eating BF/With and without metformin noting worked)
So Last friday i started EF with water today is the 7th day
so My BG changed on the second day it self morning 7:00 AM :83 11:30 86 Total day avg is 83-86 mg/dl
This all feels great,btw,forgot to mention my weight :183.5lbs (this morning)

if want to see more details u can see my threads below:


https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/high-blood-sugar-and-ketone-levels-in-the-morning/38175/5

Extended Fasting:

I intially planned for 4 day fast …but i felt comfortable and thought of doing until one of the following condition is met:
1.My blood sugar falls below 70Mg/dl(lowest i recorded was 71 until now)
2.If Reach 175 Lbs.
3.if feel Discomfortable like dizziness/nausea or super hunger for more than 1/2 hr even after drink water
4. if i reach 21 days

Questions:
But in this process i have be reading and listening a lot of journals/podcasts/forums …few things that put me in dilemma are

  1. In IDM itself in Q&A Dr fung recommends supervision after 14 days .So, Does this mean more than 14 days is a risky territory?

2.In the ketogenicforum itself there is a rant thread abt Dr. Adam Nally discussing the dangers of EF and many people seem to agree.what is the generally conscience abt this topic and what does experienced people here suggest as ideal no of days?(in this you tube podcast Dr Eric points to study where he states EF is good but Keto has better memory effect and he point to stress induced by EF (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qOQGBVedAQ&t=955s),But this is on mice )

3.This is more important for me personally ,i come from prolong exposure to diabetics and obesity ,Now only i am starting to enjoy the world thats not food …but what i see from a lot transformation videos is that once they stop EF they generally gain few pounds back …So what the best lifestyle approach i have to follow to avoid this and what best if period and intervals advise that are sustainable in the longer run that help in the weight loss and maintenance .

Thanks for taking time to read the long post and helping with your valuable suggestions

(Rob) #2

A lot to unpack there and I am no expert but initial comments:

  1. You don’t want to lose much weight so a very long EF doesn’t seem very appropriate to that
  2. You are rightly concerned about your T2D so should be most concerned with insulin (NOT BG). Don’t fall into the doctor trap about BG being the key measure. You are fine with BG in the 90’s as long as you are dropping your insulin (harder to measure). Low BG can come from high insulin so don’t obsess about a 70 BG score.
  3. With the available BF you have you shouldn’t be able to EF without damage for 14-21 days - you could starve but you don’t seem to want to do that (smart).

Consider a “fat fast” where you consume energy almost entirely from fat so you don’t starve but you minimize insulin (butter, MCT/coconut oil in coffee, HWCream, macadamias, etc.) which should give you your goals without a harsh EF? Set the calories so you get some energy from body fat and you could lose some BF and lower insulin, without pain/suffering.

There are threads here on very extended fasting but I don’t believe any of them have your starting point. Here is an example of a successful EF of many weeks but he started from >400lbs.

Good luck with whatever you choose and maybe search for “fat fast”.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #3

I learned something new. My fasting blood glucose is 90 so I shouldn’t worry about lowering it?

(Rob) #4

Again, not an expert but my understanding is that anywhere from 70-100 is “normal” range for BG and below 100 is not damaging to the body per se. It would be better to have a 90 BG and lower insulin than a 70BG and higher insulin since it is the insulin that is doing most of the inflammatory damage rather than the BG in the ‘normal’ range. Uncontrolled BG will get you in the short term (which drives the treatment protocol) but it is not your long-term goal.
Docs treat T2 as a disease of BG control but that is the symptom not the cause of the T2 damage. That is why the docs will prescribe ever more insulin to control BG even though it is what will make the T2 progressively worse. It is really a disease of insulin control - reduce that, the BG will come down as will the inflammation and other symptoms of hyperinsulinemia.

(Alec) #5

Hi, congrats on your excellent progress thus far, you are doing great!:smiley:

I take it from your last paragraph that your main goal here is not to rebound, and maintain your current weight? As Bob said above, a 21 day EF doesn’t really seem suitable to achieve maintenance or gradual weight lowering.

What I would suggest is single day (36hr) fasts once or twice a week, eating keto the rest of the week with lots of fat, and see if that achieves what you want. If you start rebounding, then maybe extend it to 2 day fasts. Going for broke on a single long fasting effort does not to me sound like the right strategy.

Go easy on yourself, you’ve got the rest of your life to get this right! You sound very motivated, so I am sure you will achieve your goals.
Cheers
Alec

(Empress of the Unexpected) #6

100 up is considered pre diabetic. I have a pretty pro active doctor so I think I will ask for a glucose tolerance test. I had one when I was pregnant and it was kinda off the charts. The funny thing being at the time I couldn’t gain weight and my doctor had me eating bread and cookies!!! Duh!!!

(Rob) #7

The A1C score determines T2D not the BG. They are related but not directly predictive and there are various reasons why BG may be above or below 100 at any particular time. You can have over 100 in the morning due to a dawn phenomenon, etc. and spike higher than others with food but it is primarily a symptom of your ability to make and resistance to insulin. Take a GTT as long as they are testing insulin as well (Kraft test) or just get a fasting insulin and BG to work out your HOMA:IR score to know your insulin resistance with less testing.

(km) #8

I have stopped the extended fast now and as noted above I Came back to my If routine 23:1 IF which I have been doing for a month but again within two days I see that morning blood sugar is at 105 and continues to spike till 130 by noon then normal also I now see bubbles in urine but I had all the test related to kidney function il@end of March every thing is normal …should I get checked immediately…,I have a test scheduled @end of month

(Alec) #9

I am not a doctor, but I am pretty sure bubbles in urine is not ok. So I would strongly recommend a trip to the dr at this point.

(km) #10

Hi Alec,

Thanks Alec i was also ripping apart my head on this one but what i found was one of the best way to find out if its just air bubbles or really foamy was to just try and pee by sitting … i have done that now few times and had no bubbles what so ever thats a huge relief …but as said i will get my test done at the month end and also i check my last 2 reports no issues A/G ratio or GFR/eGFR or Albumin to Creatinine Ratio all this look perfect

And thanks for your time on answering my questions

I have now decided to go the following route
A week of extended fast(WATER, i have done this comfortably ), A week of OMAD(been doing this for a month or more) and wants to repeat this cycle for atleast 4 times until i see that my morning issues of having 100+ sugar in morning and constantly raising to 135-140 until noon thats only issue that did not come under control