Time to add something else?


Been there, done that. an overall 200+lb drop in your deads isn’t unheard of, I did strict keto for 4yrs, lost a ton of strength, I wasn’t tracking my lifts to much and it was happening slow and I was attributing it to other things, I was wrong.

For people that us that lift, and lift for real, going without the carbs hurts us pretty bad. There are many that say they do just as well without the carbs, I did fine overall without the carbs, but I suffered in the gym huge. I’m beyond skeptical of those that claim their lifting hasn’t taken a hit, Take Thomas DeLauer, very impressive physique, but google up what he looked like pre Keto! Night and day difference how much muscle he lost. Danny Vega is another one, when he was doing CKD vs going strict keto and then Carnivore he lost massive size. Then some will point out that Robert Sikes has his pro card… ya, he does, and although his physique is more ripped than me because he’s super low bodyfat, mine still looks good, and I absolutely have more muscle on me than he does. I’m not qualified to walk across any stages, and that’s not what I go for, dude beauty pageants aren’t my thing, but I’m 5’10, 225lbs and around 10% BF right now. Hopefully in the next month or two I’ll be down around 8-9 if I stop screwing around.

Night and day gamechanger was me doing a hybrid TKD/CKD approach. I did them individually at first as after 4yrs strict keto I was petrified of reintroducing carbs, even strategically. But 30g Dextrose preworkout was like rocket fuel! You burn it all off during your workout, so no harm no foul. Then I tried CKD, the carb reloaded go back the pumps, was filling out shirts better, and the endurance to keep lifting was back, so I combined the two of them and that’s how it’s going to stay!

Since then I’ve almost regained all the muscle I lost, my gym energy is amazing, and my muscles have fuel again to really push the way you need to push to get it done. Again, people claim after a while they have nearly as much glycogen in the muscles with standard keto, ya, sorry, no. I’ve yet to see anybody in all the keto workout videos I’ve watched, in real life, or in myself walked out of a workout with a shirt that doesn’t fit anymore.

I should also metntion my A1C, inflammatory markers, and everything else is staying put, in ways better than they were when I was doing standard keto. I’m using the carbs I take in, they’re doing the good, but not the bad because I’m not eating a bunch of them and sitting and doing nothing, they’re being used up in the gym and for refeed after. I now have the metabolic flexibility to go from high carb to no carb and never even feel the difference, no energy drain, no keto flu, no nothing. I eat stuff, and I burn it off.

As an example, pre workout this morning, I had 80g of oatmeal, a scoop of whey in there, a TBSP of peanut butter and a banana chopped up in there. There was my medium and medium-high GI carbs, some fat, and some protein, 1.5hrs later I hit the gym. Post workout I had a double scoop protein shake and I’m done. Lunch and dinner will be normal keto meals, once or twice a week depending on how I feel I’ll have a higher carb day, but still not trash carbs to top everything off.

Keto doesn’t have to be a cookie cutter thing, and it really never is, it’s just selective and people don’t admit a lot.

(jr bob dobbs) #22

Did it take you any experimenting to determine what time of day to add carbs? Or you simply began using them shortly before your workouts?

I’m trying to determine how long it might take for my body to store the glycogen from the diet. I’ve got a blood glucometer that I use periodically to satisfy my curiosity; perhaps I will use it to determine peaks after adding carbs to see when adding them would be most effective for me.

Like you, I’d want glucose available for the entire gym session, and gone shortly after…

(Allie) #23

White rice seems to work well for me, oats too (I need gluten free), but some swear by using a small amount of actual glucose which can be easily dissolved in water and drank preworkout.

Also worth you trying an electrolyte supplement and creatine preworkout, or intraworkout. I tend to make up a pint of water, drink half before and finish during.

(jr bob dobbs) #24

I have creatine, NAC, l-carnitine, NMN, leucine, beta alanine, potassium, magnesium, sodium, and l-arginine in bulk powder form. I use them with a can of sparkling water (flavor) and ice for pre- and during-workout hydration.

I’ve never been a user of commercial pre-workout drinks (fake, too many chemicals, most are gimmicks) but the compounds I am using are important to muscle synthesis and performance, among other things.

I used to eat oatmeal with bananas and blueberries. Back then I was adding a small amount of brown sugar and cinnamon. Although carnivore has removed all of my food cravings, I do actually miss that oatmeal and fruit meal. I may try it again (without the brown sugar and cinnamon of course).

White rice, for sure, I will do some experimenting with.

(Robin) #25

No religion here… just a bunch of low carb heathens. There’s a different one on every corner! And we can definitely preach.


Probably look into Stan Efferding’s Vertical diet. He uses white rice because it’s well tolerated by a lot of folks. For pre-workout though, dextrose is probably the best way to go.

TKD to start will probably benefit you. Then, you can look into periodic type intervals of CKD. As long as you’re eating just enough carbs to replenish muscle gycogen stores and building lean muscle, your health markers should improve.


It’s funny because I will listen to just about everything, but opiate through fear inoculum provides such a difference that it’s like listening to multiple bands. Lateralus is one of the reasons I got into combinatorics. It was their magnum opus, but fear inoculum is close to replacing it for me. Hearing Pneuma live…existential bliss.

(Little Miss Scare-All) #28

You know, to some degree, this happened to me also. Lateralus opened my mind in a very odd way. It initially lead me to delve into the subject of fibonacci sequence and its place in music. And it’s funny because when I saw your avatar, I appreciated it.

I bought Lateralus as soon as it came out back in 2001. I was 18 at the time and into a mind-altering lifestyle. I used to load it into my discman and walk around the streets of Manhattan in the middle of the night, and all I can say is it changed me as a person. It was one of the most influencial albums of mind expansion to date.


But…but I’m, a church whore (bydefiiniition).

(Little Miss Scare-All) #30

More like the whore of babble-on.

Ohhhh I kid. I couldn’t pass up a good old-fashioned book of Revelation joke.


Just listening to StevieNicks here.

Now Dido.

Good luck freind. :slight_smile:

(KM) #32

You might also want to research Glucose Disposal Agent. This is anecdotal only, I have never tried one, but the point of a GDA is to store what glycogen you do produce on a lower carb diet in your muscles (rather than your liver). It would seem reasonable that a small carb ingestion with that energy being directed at muscle tissue might boost performance? I got my idea from this website, I don’t know if it works and don’t specifically recommend any product here. (https://www.predatornutrition.com/articlesdetail?cid=complete-guide-to-glucose-disposal-agents#:~:text=A%20glucose%20disposal%20agent%20(GDA,of%20glucose%20in%20the%20bloodstream.)


Don’t take this the wrong way, like i’m a weirdod freak…;…I AM NOT.!

I’m a good person; I think you are too.!


Lots of love

(Little Miss Scare-All) #35

I’m gucci. No worries. I’m pretty hard to offend. I have a very odd sense of humor. If I’m jokingly insulting you, it’s generally a good sign.


I need to search guccii, loll!

(Little Miss Scare-All) #37

It just means “I’m doing good”, or “I’m ok” lol


This is all good x


No, if you do “normal” TKD, you’ll use a high GI carb like Dextrose or Cyclic Dextrin, it doesn’t need to be digested, once you drink it, it’s going! So that would be 30min pre workout max, or literally as you’re walking in the door. I started with 20g Dextrose as that’s the (normal) way, but that really didn’t do much that was noticeable. I upped it a couple times, but ultimately started going with more normal amounts of pre workout carbs, after all, I was doing normal workouts, so the rules aren’t changing at that point keto or not. With food, same rules as normal preworkout meals, 1-2hrs before is what you’d go for. If you’re going around the 2hr range you’d want a little more fat in there to slow digestion a little. But you don’t have to be super anal about it. If you do refeeds, within I’d say within 3-4hrs or so you’d utilize it “best”, but it really dosesn’t matter too much either. Once your liver is full your muscles will pull everything they can, it’s only when both liver and muscle are full it starts spilling over.

Only other thing to keep in mind, is clearly the scale will see what you’re doing, holding muscle glycogen again can very easily add 10-15lbs after a couple days, so just take a look at yourself, as long as you’re not bloating or anything, you’re good. When our livers start burning off the glycogen again, they can’t burn what the muscles took, that needs to be burned by the muscles, so you won’t lose that outside the workouts. I can tell after a couple days when I go too low because I’ll stop filling out T-Shirts the way I usually do, my chest will look smaller and my sleeves will go a little loose on me. I don’t think you’ll have any issues burning off PWO carbs, you’re clearly lifting for real if you had a 465 deadlift. Which will come back very quickly, muscle memory is real!

I wouldn’t bother with the glucometer, as there’s no way to give context to what it’s saying, a snapshot of a blood glucose level isn’t a fuel gauge reading, you’re still processing it all for hours after and it’s still doing it’s thing. As long as your fasting levels are good, that’s all you need to worry about. That’s why medium and high speed carbs are best around workouts, and the slower ones are good for refeeds. All comes down to your workouts, and how much muscle you have on you to suck it up. Trying to figure it out exactly is near impossible, but you’ll feel it in your workouts for sure. You’ll hone in on whether you should add more or do a little less very quickly.

My PWO breakfast this morning had about 90g carbs in it, my post workout meal only had 10, and that was from my protein powder, almond milk and some MCT powder, so super minimal. The rest of the day will have near none. If it was a leg day, the post workout meal probably would have had 50g or so, as you know what squats, deads and RDL’s do to you, then it’s a good time for a small refeed.


That is beautiful. Similar story here too. 14 year old stumbling upon Aenima, then delving into undertow and opiate. Life altering. At 16, Lateralus awakens me. 20 years later, it’s the most impactful influence on my life by far.

Swing on the spiral.