This video about "Unlocking the Keto Code" completely confuses me

(icky) #1

Have you guys worked out what this video means, if you’ve seen it? It’s about a year old.

It seems to be focussing on “mitochondrial uncoupling” as the most important facet of keto… ?

(Joey) #2

Not sure what to make of it. Listened to the whole thing (at 1.5x speed) and took away some interesting hypotheses. Whether there’s compelling science involved was somewhat out of my grasp. :man_shrugging:

(icky) #3

Yeah, same here :smile:

One thing I gathered amongst the confusion was that he seems to think that by using MCT oil, your body has ketones to use (which he views as a signalling device for the body) and according to him, that’s the main benefit of ketosis… And therefore he argues, you may as well eat a normal (?) more varied diet, add in MCT oil and you’re good to go and don’t need to stick to a (restrictive) keto diet.

I’m going to have to listen to it again, to see if it makes any more sense the 2nd time round…

(Joey) #4

Yeah, that seemed like a point indeed he was making. But it didn’t comport with anything my “common sense” was telling me about how a body actually works, so I sort of zoned out on that takeaway message.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

Mitochondrial uncoupling is one of the benefits of a low-carb, high-fat ketogenic diet. The key to achieving that benefit, plus all the others, is a low glucose (i.e., carbohydrate) intake, because that is our main lever for lowering insulin secretion.

A ketogenic diet is not particularly limited, as our Boring Keto forum makes clear. In any case keto is less restrictive than a vegan diet, and it’s decidedly more healthful, unless a vegan plans very carefully and supplements appropriately.

While ketone bodies are useful as food, they have an equally important role as signaling molecules with potent epigenetic effects. I’m not sure of the efficacy of MCT oil in increasing serum ketone levels. If our diet is high in glucose (i.e., carbohydrates), then the insulin response required for keeping serum glucose under control also inhibits fatty-acid metabolism, which would hamper the production of ketone bodies. Exogenous ketones would be a better solution.

In any case, excessive glucose consumption has known deleterious effects on mitochondrial health, so lowering carb consumption has value for that reason alone, quite apart from all the other benefits. So eating in a way that promotes mitochondrial health would seem to be a better long-term strategy than eating crap and guzzling supplements.

(Alec) #6

Gundry? Well there’s your problem!! :joy::joy::joy:

(Edith) #7

The body gives precedence to burning glucose over fat since it wants to clear glucose from the blood as quick as possible. Could that possibly be the same for glucose over ketone bodies? If one is taking ketones but still ingesting sugar, would the body actually utilize the ketones?

(icky) #8

Can you sum up Gundry for me in 100 words or less? :blush:

(Bob M) #9

I think your body would use ketones. I listened to a podcast with a woman who advocated a keto diet for people with migraines. But her research was mainly directed to using exogenous ketones for migraines, mainly because it was easier to do (don’t have to be concerned with what people actually eat) and was easier to get funding in that area. People did get a benefit from exo ketones, so at least their minds did something with the ketones.

For her own patients not part of her studies, she highly recommended a keto diet. She just did research with exo ketones.

And I don’t know how many other parts of your body (for instance, your heart) would use ketone. Only that brains – for some/many people who get migraines and who are eating whatever diet they are eating – will use ketones. (The theory she had was there was some type of defect in the brain’s processing of glucose, which could be insulin resistance though I don’t think she was entirely sure, which is why ketones worked - they were another energy source for the brain in these folks.)

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #10

It does to some extent. Research into Alzheimer’s disease shows that patients can experience some degree of cognitive improvement, even if they refuse to eat a low-carb diet.

The brain prefers ketone bodies as fuel, when it can get them. Also, the brain needs lots of cholesterol in order to function properly (it aids in the transmission of nerve impulses, and the nerves’ myelin sheaths are made of it), and since fatty acids and cholesterol are too large to cross the blood-brain barrier, the brain needs ketones in order to make cholesterol out of them. This is one of the reasons for the phenomena of carb fog and keto clarity.

But in general, you are right; the body wants to rid the blood of excess glucose, and metabolising it is one way to get rid of it. Again, as I’ve pointed out many times, this is the same mechanism by which a bear fattens for the winter: the insulin response to the berries it eats makes it hungry (so it will keep eating) and prevents the metabolism of fat by the skeletal muscles and strictly couples the fat cells’ metabolism to their energy needs, so as to maximise fat storage. The glucose goes to the muscles to feed them, and to the fat cells in the form of triglycerides (converted in the liver and packaged into VLDL).

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #11

As I understand it, there are two points here: first, hyperinsulinaemia paradoxically inhibits glucose metabolism in the brain, even though the brain needs insulin in order to be able to transport glucose into brain cells. Second, too much glucose damages the mitochondrial health of brain cells, which has all sorts of possible consequences, from seizures to depression to cancer to dementia to schizophrenia to motor-neuron diseases.

(Doug) #12

Very well said, Paul, and what a massive “Ugh…” that is. Really not much good to say about too much insulin. :neutral_face:

(icky) #13

So… Gundry’s theory would be “By getting exogenous ketones, you get some of the benefits of a keto diet, with less effort”

And the counter theory would be that that’s correct but that an actual ketogenic diet and being in ketosis has many more benefits and these are substantial and not just “minor” and hence it’s worth it to put in the extra effort of sticking to a specific diet… ?

Is that like the summary for dummies, as regards the video?

(Bob M) #14

Any time I see someone who ha/knows a person with Alzheimer’s or migraines, I ask them to try exogenous ketones. If these help at all, you can be more confident that a keto diet would help too. So, this theory isn’t completely crazy, though I would say if exo ketones help, a keto diet would help more.

I know this is a completely different theory, but it has a parallel. There is some success treating anorexia nervosa with a ketogenic diet. Supposedly, fasting helps with anorexia nervosa, but of course that’s no good (that’s why it’s anorexic). But if you follow a keto diet, you get some (many?) of those same benefits, but you also get to eat.

(Mark Rhodes) #15

Would this be the Stanton Protocol?

(Mark Rhodes) #16

Since 2015 we know a heart in failure can only use ketones: The AHA removed the simple ppost and now makes you dig.

I hypothesized in 2017 it was the minum requirement for oxygen and as you were already struggling to get some…voila

Of course the American College of Cardiology is also looking into exogenous ketone therapy as the Ketogenic Diet is to onerous to use.

(Jane) #17

I can’t take a man who wears bright blue glasses seriously :rofl:

(Robin) #18

Excellent point @Janie. I won’t even bother watching. :wink:

(B Creighton) #19

That is my take away of Dr Gundry’s position. He is trying to sell products and books, and I believe is being somewhat misleading. While I do believe eating MCTs is going to help you make and burn ketones, and perhaps help out your mitochondria, you are not going to lose significant fat following this idea without cutting carbs significantly. I do seek out MCTs, and I believe they are an important part of maintaining my weight loss and staying metabolically flexible. There are studies which show those using MCTs lose fat faster than other dieters, but I am not aware of any showing significant fat loss through the use of MCTs or exogenous ketones alone.

But to make this claim as a means of losing 40 or more pounds of fat I believe is just not being realistic or honest. IMHO Dr Gundry does this with alcohol as well. It is just not metabolically healthy, but he makes allowances for it, because he thinks it will sell his ideas more IMHO. If he doesn’t want to say that, he should skip the subject IMHO. I think he went way overboard on lectins too. Why? I think to set himself apart from the crowd.

That all said, I don’t think his advice to eat goat and sheep dairy is bad. I think it is healthful, and good advice, which I live myself. In fact I think most of his advice is good, and can help lots of people… I just think he emphasizes some things to try to create a niche for himself and sell products… that is the beef I have with him.

(MC) #20

IMHO Dr Gundry does this with alcohol as well. It is just not metabolically healthy, but he makes allowances for it, because he thinks it will sell his ideas more IMHO.

I know he does it with red wine, because his book is all about the mitochondrial uncoupling and mitogenesis through polyphenols and red wine will do that for you. Is red wine metabolically unhealthy? I don’t have it often anymore as it makes me hungry.

I have read his new book on feeding the gut bacteria and he does delve more into lectins. Something to be said for grain brain, which isn’t new. I do like that he’s researching more and offering information, that may or may not be correct, into why we do keto.