The right amount of protein. Carnivores, I need you! :)

(Adriana Ro) #1

I want to try the carnivore diet for the Next few weeks but I think I’m eating a huge amount of protein. I can easily eat as much as 200g of protein. Which is too much protein…

Other than meat, I also eat olive oil and eggs (which contain carbs) so my diet is not ZC. (I make mayo with those)

I’m a female, 17 yo and dont work out. I’ve been keto since January and haven’t lost any weight until I tried extended fasting (3-4 days/week). After that I lost 6 kg but gained those back due to medications I have to take. Now I find myself unable to fast for more than 24h because I’m too stressed out so I thought that eating even fewer carbs will make me lose some fat even without fasting (that’s the reason why I started this ‘dirty carnivore’ diet).

I’ve red many posts on this forum about eating too much protein in correlation with rising insuline level/ not rising insuline level. I understood that if I eat ZC (then avoiding eggs) the chances of protein rising insuline level are super low, is it correct? I would cut eggs out If I could eat a decent amount of protein tbh (so more than the 65g that Cronometer suggests)

Share with me your thoughts/knowledge about protein in correlation with insuline.

If you think that 150/even 200g of protein is too much for me, how much protein should I consume? Sadly for me is way too easy to overeat on protein.

(William Shafer III) #2

Hi. So I’ve gone back and forth from Carnivore to Keto and back a few times now. We probably need a little more info. Height/Age/Current weight etc… I’m 6’4"/36/260 for example, and my goal weight is 240. I’m a big person and would eat approx. 20-24oz of meat a day easily(200+grams). After all, if you were to do strict Carnivore you’d only eat beef. IMHO doing Carnivore is something different from Keto.

(Adriana Ro) #3

So, I’m female, 17yo, 178cm (approx 5’10), 82kg (166lbs I believe). My goal weight is 64kg

(Catherine) #4

I have to disagree with something…but maybe its an opinion? Carnivores only eat beef?

A carnivore is an animal or plant that eats the flesh of animals. … While some carnivores eat only meat , other carnivores also supplement their diets with vegetation on occasion. For example, most bears are omnivores , which means they eat both plants and meat , McCarthy explained.Dec 4, 2018

At any regards…I would call myself carnivore. I eat all kinds of meats and meat products (such as eggs, butter, etc) Some do dairy like milk some do not because of the lactose - sugar. I am lactose intolerant and have IBS. I do not drink milk. I love cheese but have to watch my intake because it will so slow my progress. I drink only water on a rare occasion I may have a coffee or a may have a coffee with a little bacon grease in it or maybe a little coconut oil. I just started doing this way of eating a month ago for three months prior I did straight Keto until I stalled for a month. I tracked at first. I no longer track. Sometimes I eat once a day sometimes I eat three times a day. I listen to my body, I eat when I’m hungry and I don’t when I’m not. I do not snack. I drink alot of water.

My total weight lost in 4 months is 31 pounds. And I am 41 years old. Some people say they have increased energy, I haven’t. Some people say they have increased mood, I haven’t. I keep waiting, hoping I will get my turn :slight_smile: But like I said everyone is different. I just want to feel healthier, better and of course the other benefit love my body again - which includes shopping for those cute clothes!

But do your research, listen to your body, do tweaks along the way. Everyone is different. Everyone’s body is different. We will lose at different paces and in different places. Be patient. Don’t give up.

(William Shafer III) #5

Just to clarify, when I said “Strict Carnivore” I was speaking to the popular protocol not the way most people think of how a predator eats.

Here is what a calorie calculator shows for you stats:
Maintenance: 1944 calories daily
Fat Loss 1555: calories daily
Extreme Fat Loss: 1328 calories daily

There are 1152 calories in 1 pound of Ground Beef (80% Lean / 20% Fat). Calorie breakdown: 72% fat, 0% carbs, 28% protein. And approx. 80 grams protein.

I wanted to give you some info to start with… you can Google other meats and like @craesp said you ultimately will needs to do your own trial and error. But, if you look at the info above you could eat 24oz (1 1/2 lbs) of ground beef a day and only be somewhere around 120 grams protein / 1600 calories. So, generally speaking 200+ would be a bit much.

(Catherine) #6

I found this link interesting for a beginner, maybe you will to!

The Carnivore diet is also known as a zero carb diet, or all meat diet, and is classified as a high protein diet. A full, or strict, follower will eat just meat and only drink water. Whereas, others may include drinks like, coffee and tea, or other sources of fat like dairy products.

(Adriana Ro) #7

Thanks!

(Chris) #8

Hi there. I’ve been carnivore for almost two years, hopefully I can help clear up some confusion. If you have any questions afterward, please don’t hesitate to ask!

ZC as in Zero Carb actually has nothing to do with carb content. It’s a misnomer. Zero Carb really just means “eating of the animal kingdom only,” so, no plants. The carbs in eggs are negligible and shouldn’t even be counted, to be honest. So, the only thing on your list that isn’t ZC, is the oil. Confused yet?

ZC / carnivore doesn’t necessarily mean high protein - you need to still be getting most of your calories from fat.

My advice to you at this time is to not count. Get yourself a nice fatty cut of beef, such as brisket or an untrimmed NY strip or ribeye, and eat the fat until you physically can’t without getting sick, then fill up on lean. You’ll get your energy requirements and there’s no way you’ll go overboard on protein.

This advice is conflated - in the absence of enough fat, the body won’t produce enough glucagon to counteract the insulin from “too much” protein, which could cause the issue you’re trying to avoid. This forum hasn’t collectively made up their mind.

So, I go back my my previous statement. Eat fat to satiety and then finish off with lean. It’s almost exactly what the dudes say to do on their podcast intro, just skip the part about carbs as it doesn’t matter in this context.

Wouldn’t sweat calories until you’re closer to your goal, if at all. Calorie measurement is pretty bad overall and human bodies are more complex than a bomb calorimeter device.

Basis for a lot of this advice: http://www.empiri.ca/p/eat-meat-not-too-little-mostly-fat.html

More information here, in fact a lot of information: https://www.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/wiki/faq

And yet even more information here: https://justmeat.co/

One last important point to make, carnivore isn’t necessarily a weight loss diet. Expecting immediate scale movement may not be good. This diet is for healing. Getting to a healthy weight will be a side effect of your new healthy diet, but might not be the most immediate positive change. Be patient, and don’t restrict calories. You NEED fat.

(Chris) #9

You should start a new thread if you want to debate this.

Ah, yes. The first result from your google search. This has nothing to do with the carnivore diet whatsoever. This is a biological classification.

Just to clarify, restricting calories the way an online calculator would have one do is a recipe for yo-yo dieting and hormonal malfunction. Especially for a 17 year old. @m.Keto.m restricting calories is not the way to go - even if in the short term perhaps you put on a pound or two, nourishing your body will go many miles further.

(Adriana Ro) #10

So you eat enough fat only by chosing fatty meat? In case you dont, how do you eat that much fat?
P.s. you’ve been carnivore for 2 years? You are my new carni guru ahah

(Chris) #11

There’s a few things you can do.

  1. Get your hands on beef suet (this is the fat found around the kidneys of the cow). You can sear it in a pan, briefly microwave it, or eat it raw. I have a farmer I get mine from.
  2. Bone marrow - usually in the grocery store they sell lengths of “marrow bones” which are femurs. You have to scoop the marrow out with a spoon. Again, can be seared or eaten raw. If you go to a butcher you may be able to get the bones cut in half the long way, or canoe cut. This will allow you to just put the bone in a pan and fry it, and you can just spoon the marrow out easily.
  3. Fattier ground beef, like 70/30. Make burgers out of this and cook them medium rare-ish. You may lose some fat to the pan, but you can pour it back over. I do not suggest eating straight ground beef (like, in a bowl) with a large amount of liquid fat, this can cause diarrhea.
  4. You can ask the butcher for fat trimmings. They may say no, that it’s a safety hazard (whole foods says this, no idea why), or they may want it to use so they can mix it in with their ground beef. If they do agree to give the trimmings to you, you’ll probably get them very cheap. Trimmings is the fat trimmed off of steaks since Americans are on a low fat kick for the last 50 years.

I don’t suggest dairy - especially if one is trying to lose weight. Eggs are okay, if you tolerate them. Some don’t digest them well. But cut them out if you’re stalling, and see if that helps.

(Adriana Ro) #12

I know that chicken skin is fatty. Maybe I can ask my butcher to sell me some so I’ll put it in the oven and make it crispy like chips. What do you think?
Anyway thank you for helping me!

(Chris) #13

Worth a shot. Chicken is less nutritious than beef or lamb for a few reasons though. Not that it’s THAT much worse but the more info you are armed with, the better.

Chicken is higher in omega 6.

Chickens are not fed very good food most of the time, and lack the digestive hardware that a ruminant animal possesses. This means that a cow could eat soy for a few months but still produce a nutritious product that humans can eat, while the meat from a chicken could pass on the harmful effects of the soy it’s fed. It’s better than eating the soybeans directly and you may not even suffer any ill effects, but it’s a thing so I figure better that you know than not know. Pork is just about the same way as chicken.

Again, it’s probably fine, but the best beasts to eat are cows, goats, sheep, bison, and wild game, in my humble opinion. :slight_smile:

(William Shafer III) #14

There is a debate on whether keto/carnivore is only hormonal or both hormonal and calorie based. Again to clarify, I’m a 36 year old male, I just wanted to point her in the right direction. Now maybe you’re a doctor or not, but there are studies on both sides. Also, to anyone else reading this, every single body is different. And you can’t forget bad eating habits. I plateaued while eating Carnivore 82/15/3 over 3000 calories a day. There seems to be some calorie component. I agree she shouldn’t dwell on calories, but forcing more calories on yourself also can back-fire. I was using the calories to make an example of how calorie dense beef is.

(Chris) #15

I appreciate you. I’m not advocating for forcing calories - I’m advocating for following what will nourish the body. Whether that’s 1200 today and 2800 tomorrow, I don’t know.

I’m definitely not a doctor, but the vast majority of nutritional studies are based on epidemiological data and food surveys since it’s almost impossible to perform a double blind clinical trial with a big enough sample size and a long enough duration without billions of dollars and locking all the participants in a metabolic ward. So I don’t think it’s really worth mentioning studies on both sides - both sides are going to be flawed and raise more questions than they answer (not that this is a bad thing, but it’s very important to use it to ask questions rather than close the book on what’s “proven” or not).

(William Shafer III) #16

I agree on the nourishing the body. Not trying to argue. I guess I just got a little touchy. I remember when I was her age, I eat myself into morbid obesity from 16-20, lost all of it, became anorexic, then gained it all back to just now get back to a heathy weight. I’d hate for someone else to struggle with yo-yoing. Body image and emotional eating are a far bigger struggle then what you actually eat. Protocol is easy, discipline is not. Thanks for fleshing out Carnivore, you probably have more time with it than me.

(Chris) #17

It’s all good bro, we’re discussing. I don’t see much argument here, I think we’re more just clarifying our points to come to agreement.

#18

I eat carnivore cause it suits me well at the moment.
I think perhaps there is a misunderstanding that the protein = weight of meat.

It doesn’t and the protein content of any meat is much less than the weight, so it is something that needs to be tracked.

I add a few desertspoons of butter to everything after it’s cooked, in order to keep my fat levels up…I also add EV olive oil and MCT oil on occasion too, for the fat, although that isn’t strictly carnivore.

If I am cooking meat that is not organically raised I tip out the fat after cooking and add better quality fat before serving eg organic butter.

I think its a very individual thing, what suits you and you are happy eating. I keep a range of fats in the fridge…tallow, duck fat, butter, suet etc. I buy the best fats I can afford from the best organic butcher I could find. Some stuff I want I can’t find in an organic, but I try. I figure releasing the toxins I presume I have stored over years in my own body fat is enough to be getting on with clearing.

I had a dietitian early on in my keto journey who advised me to buy the best meats I could afford and that recommendation stood me in good stead. I think it made carnivore easier and more attractive to me. I came to carnivore for health reasons and I had to kind of support myself into it, wasn’t a natural fit for me initially although it is now.

(Catherine) #19

I think we are all entitled to our opinions and share what has worked for us. Isn’t that what she is asking for…advise? I thought that this community was to share and feel like you can share without being criticized for doing so and learn from others. I hope that she has been able to collect information from all of us.

(Running from stupidity) #20

Yes, that’s what’s happening.

Excellent, that’s what’s happening.