The More I Learn

(Lorena) #1

So I’m a little late watching Dr Berg’s videos and I’m finding them very informative. One thing he said was not to count veggie carbs into the total day’s carbs. Well…I went back and separated the veggie carbs from the regular carbs and my regular carbs are only around 45 (averaging 6 per day) for the whole week! Total grams were 111 (averaging 16 per day) for the week. So far, my carbs have come from veggies and I thought I was doing fine but should I up my regular carbs? I have not had fruit in the 6 weeks I’ve been doing this. I made the Keto bread but had been limiting it because it was taking up a lot of my daily 20 grams. I am trying to keep this simple until I get the hang of it but this threw a monkey wrench into things!

(bulkbiker) #2

Please ignore Dr Berg… many of us have found some of his ideas a bit off… although there’s some good stuff mixed in too.
Stick to less than 20g of carbs per day as you were at the start and count your veg as carbs…

(bulkbiker) #3

Have a read of this thread and maybe follow Dr Berry instead…

(Randy) #4

Things I’ve learned by KHAN:

Because of his ties to Scientology, some people will tell you to ignore everything he says.

Experimenting with different things to find what works well for you (n=1) is the key to success.

Some people like, and do well with lots of veggies. Others, not so much. (n=1)

Seek multiple sources, and come to your own conclusions.

Dr. Bergs videos have helped me (especially early on) but I don’t follow him in a vacuum.

Keep Calm, and Keto On. :slight_smile:

(Lorena) #5

Oh wow! I just read that thread. I’d seen Dr Berg’s name mentioned several times so I went there. I will look at some of the others named in the thread. Thank you for pointing me in a different direction.

This is becoming meaningful to me!
Thanks!

That turned my stomach a bit. Ya know, I’m usually better at research! :roll_eyes:

(Randy) #6

We’re experts at throwing the baby out with the bath water here.

(bulkbiker) #7

That’s ok many of us have made similar errors… there’s some good stuff in his videos but also a fair amount of weirdness… hard to sometimes separate the 2…

#8

Less throwing out the baby and more “by clicking his videos there is a very high chance you’re sending money directly to the Church of Scientology.” Clicks equal money, and Bergermeister donated at least $500,000. If you’re cool ponying up to that responsibility of contributing to that because he tells people to eat veggies, that’s up to you.

(Natasha) #9

Hi Lorena,

I tend to eat plenty of above ground veg. Usually my total carbs for the day are around 40-50g, sometimes up to 60-70g. Well under 10 of these carbs will come from things like double cream, cheese, some 90% dark chocolate, occasional nuts etc, the rest is all from vegetables. I don’t know what the net vs. total carbs of these veggies would be but because there is so much fibre in the veg, I assume net carbs would probably significantly lower than total (which is quite high by usual ketogenic standards).

I look at trying to eat in a long-term-sustainable and enjoyable way. I really really enjoy vegetables, so I eat them! And if I sometimes feel I need/want/would enjoy some extra or some fruit etc then I go ahead and have them (within reason). However, I wouldn’t be looking to purposefully add in any extra carbs from fruit, extra veg or any other sources just because the macros allowed it or for the sake of it.

I think the thing is to play around with what works for you. It’s a balancing act between staying in ketosis and formulating a way of eating that you can see yourself following forever but it can definitely be done! :grinning:

(Charlotte) #10

Dr Berg’s specialty is chiropractic and he sells his own line of keto products which to me hurts any reputability that he has. I didn’t know about the scientology thing until now which completely shuts me down to him completely. You gotta be careful of who these “experts” are and make sure you check out their credentials so you can get good information from sources that don’t rely on their bottom line.

(Sharon) #11

I go by 20 total carbs a day. Check out Ken Berry MD and Eric Westman MD they agree to count total carbs. Fruit is just Fructose and will all store as fat. Fructose is not burned as energy just stores as fat. Fruit is not the healthy thing we always heard. Also Dr Berry book Lies my Doctor Told me is a great read

(Mother of Puppies ) #12

There are tons of “experts” on the ‘tube, but the ones who have a clinical practice in this and have helped thousands of patients in person are the most important to listen to. For example:

  • Jason Fung
  • Megan Ramos
  • Eric Westman
#13

The knowledge that fruit is NOT just fructose is starting to become more widespread through the work of Robert Lustig MD - the trailblazing expert on HFCS and fructose. He clarifies and reclarifies in his writing and speaking that the whole form fructose in the form of fibrous fruit (such as apples and pears) is very unique in that the fiber holds most of the fructose andvery little fructose actually is released into the bloodstream and metabolized, etc. He articulates that whole form fibrous fruit is not to be feared and that it contains many health-supporting, beneficial compounds - the “poison” of its fructose is bound by the “medicine” ( its fiber and antioxidants etc) and so it is not actually poison to the human metabolism. (Of course, for newbies trying to to get their early 80-90% fat adaptation established, it can be very helpful to avoid all sweet tastes for 2-6 weeks - I know it helped me!).

I just learned this recently and have been experimenting with reincorporating one piece of oh so tasty, room temp, fibrous fruit (a granny smith apple or a bosc pear) a few days a week (accompanies by some nut butter or bleu cheese yogurt dip) and enjoying it immensely - it feels rejuvenating, as it is raw and has bio-active water (Louise Gittleman PhD in her low-carb book for women Radical Metabolism talks about the importance of detox assistance for midlife and older women, and how a certain amount of raw fruit/veg can help). It’s also a thing in some earth-based medicine traditions to recognize certain fruits as especially helpful for sexual health/fertility.

Apparently if one is well fat-adapted and has recovered from any food addiction, eating one piece of fibrous fruit per day may not only be workable, but can be a joy. Pectin (lots in apples, and citrus) is an amazing substance, and along with anti-oxidants, these whole foods can be powerful allies for functional health in terms of microbiome health and cellular heath in how they feed the good bacteria in the gut. Dr. Lustig (along with Grace Liu PhD and Dave Asprey) urges that these good bacteria create HUGE amounts of butyrate (way more than one ever gets in daily butter) and the butyrate add tremendous fuel to the brain’s fat burning and BDNF production…! Lots of folks need to bulk up their microbiome, as years of antibiotic use and sugar-burning make for very low populations of good bacteria. A robust microbiome will weigh about 4 pounds more - all good stuff.

(Carl Keller) #14

Aside from him having “the personality of a funeral director” (as quoted from @Regina) and his suggestion to eat 7-10 cups per day of leafy greens, I think Berg makes a lot of very informative videos and helps a lot of people.

I’m always keen to hear what he has to say about things I know little about but I like to try to confirm what he is saying with science or other credible sources, before I adopt or repeat his advice.

I am truly curious if anyone has lost weight eating 7-10 cups of leafies per day like he suggests… but I still won’t do it.

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(Carol Montoni) #15

I have enjoyed Dr. Berg’s videos. That is actually what got me started on a way of life that is mine to keep forever. I only had about 8 lbs to lose, and did, but I was addicted to carbs, especially sweets, my weight bounced terribly and I experienced glucose dumps daily at work, UGH. Sooooo tired. I am down 12 lbs and many inches, dumped my statin for chol (good or bad), and feel the best I have ever felt. My weight is stable and energy level stable all day. I have since learned of many many other resources on line and all of you great folks. Listening to everything and sorting through to what is common and makes sense has worked for me. I am now on more of a maintenance plan of low carb and don’t count carbs anymore. I stay away from added sugar, (but do love Atkins bars/alcohol sugar), white or wheat flour, pasta, potatoes, or bread. I don’t eat 7 cups of salad a day for sure, but I do like my veggies, all of them, and have added an apple a day. Viola!!!

(Traci Moore) #16

I’ve been doing keto for about 8 months now. I stopped losing weight though when I stopped tracking and staying close to 20 net carbs per day. I had to really watch how much veg I ate to stay in that range. I think it depends on your goals (I stay in ketosis pretty much all the time even with loser carb restriction) and how your body likes the vegges. If you want to lose, count the carbs I’d say. If you just want to stay in ketosis for the other benefits, you can probably add more vegetables. I still only have carbs from veggies, if I have fruit, it’s just a bite or two and the occasional keto bread or treat although I’m trying to wean from them.

(Lorena) #17

Wow! Quite the discussion! I appreciate everyone’s input.

My point about not eating fruit was that I have been mostly getting my carbs from veggies but I would like a 1/2 cup of mixed berries with HWC occasionally. I love veggies and haven’t minded eating this way at all. What I am getting from all this is that IF I want the berries or my keto bread and such I will allow it as a treat but not an often treat and still stay within the 20 grams of carbs.

I’ll be checking out all those other sources you’ve mentioned too.

Thanks again!

(Marianne) #18

What does this mean?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19

When researchers write up a study, they have to say how many experimental subjects were included. The shorthand for this is N = 34567, or whatever. N = 1 is therefore shorthand for experimenting on yourself.

(Marianne) #20

Oh, thank you.