The Diet of the Mountain Men

meat
(Ron) #41

So how is posting that eating only meat will kill you consistent with this purpose? Especially without presenting the data to back up the claim? Just wondering.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #42

You are certainly welcome to post a rebuttal. Preferably with facts and figures. Richard likes to use erroneous posts as a teachable moment, so have at it. But please remember that our Guidelines advise attacking ideas, not people.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #43

Thanks @PaulL for the clarification. However, the poster I refer to belittles, denigrates and insults other posters consistently. I don’t think the ‘admin’ staff misses her posts.

(Ron) #44

@PaulL,
With all due respect, I didn’t direct my question to Richard as he is not the one policing this thread. I was more curious as to your reasoning for the actions you took and what you felt violated the guideline advise? Trying to learn the boundaries.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #45

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiW_9-A2vrqAhWVOn0KHYRaDy8QFjAAegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fjustmeat.co%2Fdocs%2Fthe-diet-of-the-mountain-men-william-e-holsten.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0kmYZuwvFXOt8vWEzfQ5U8

Plus 47 refs at the end.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #46

http://exhibits.lib.usu.edu/exhibits/show/foodwaste/timeline/fur-trappers-traders-mountain-

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #47

https://online.ucpress.edu/ch/article/42/4/301/28202/The-Diet-of-the-Mountain-Men

(Edith) #48

This article was too complicated for me, but I did find other articles discussing dietary restriction (DR) increasing lifespan and using methionine restriction (MR) to imitate DR.

In the various studies, protein was reduced and carbohydrates were added as compensation. Most of us on this forum have found that eating lower protein and extra carbs is what got us here in the first place. Maybe eating keto or carnivore and having little to no carbs somehow imitates CR without having to reduce protein levels. These experiments, of course, were not done using ketogenic type diets. Until more research is done on keto or carnivore how can we know if results for MR and CR apply?

I think I was living a CR diet for years trying to keep from gaining weight, but all I did was gain weight and get nutritional deficiencies. Now, eating mostly meat, I am much healthier and it shows outwardly in my skin, hair, and nails in particular.

(Bunny) #49

Not “kill you,” “shorten your life-span?”

Data is useless if you cannot decipher what it means?

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6368C8D0-93FF-4FF8-B77D-A574D91DDB97.jpeg857×388 192 KB

Sugar? That also includes over-eating-protein more specifically animal protein not plant based protein?

Insulin/IGF-1(the double edged sword): 101

Dr. Ron Rosedale - ‘The Critical Connection Between Protein, Cancer, Aging and TOR’

Dr. Ron Rosedale - ‘The Early Ancestral Connection Between Protein, Cancer, Aging and TOR’

(Ron) #50

I’m sure there are others that would interpret this statement exactly as I did.

And again with a personal attack to insult someone. The question mark doesn’t make it somehow all ok.

@PaulL ???

(Bunny) #51

You are seemingly mistaking a scientific debate or another persons opinion as a “personal attack?” How so? How is all the unbiased research out their a “personal attack“ or “insult” on you personally? I see no evidence of that?

I really like Thomas Delauer’s statement in one of his videos: “Science is about challenging your own hypothesis?“

If you want to prove me wrong? The sky’s the limit? No one is stopping you?

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #52

It’s a personal attack when you question someones ability to understand something…

Stick to the facts…

Posting a video of someone else’ opinion is not providing facts…

(Elizabeth ) #53

Totally agree We need clinical science not epidemiology. And certainly not one person’s opinion.

(Ron) #54

Agreed.

(Ron) #56

First of all-
My post was a question directed to @PaulL and not you.
Second-
Nowhere did I give a name or quote an individual.
Third-
I have been on this forum as long as you and am quite in touch with the discussions. Because I choose not to deal with you and your " holier than thou, I am right you are wrong " opinions and feel it is not worth my time.

and finally-

Really, hysterically declaring?
Again, a personal attack on someone and the question mark doesn’t make it ALL better!

And ANOTHER accusation.

You spout your opinions like you are God and were all going to hell if we don’t agree. You don’t support them with science and if you try it is usually just someone else’s opinion that might support yours. And you constantly belittle others on this forum that question you opinions or methods.
But the saddest thing is the dribble you spout all the time that effects new people just starting the keto journey to help them become healthy only to be scared off by your tactless postings and losing all the good they could achieve with this way of eating

That is all I am going to say on this thread as it is just a waste of time dealing with you @atomicspacebunny and absolutely not worth the effort!

(Bunny) #57

Well, thank you for the complement never thought my curiosity of science was God-like and holier than most.

God Bless and take care!

(Bunny) #58

If the opinion is based on “fact,” it most certainly is “FACTUAL?”

“FACTS” could also be described as repeatable results; just as sure as gravity will keep your car from floating off into outer-space?

So here is my educated opinion on “sticking to the FACTS as you previously mentioned;

Constantly trip hammering IFG-1 ad libitum, exclusively with high amounts of animal proteins can trigger the genesis of various types of cancer eventually with time, and with a very high likeliness of probability. In addition to shortening the human life-span.

Do I expect anyone to believe that?

When somebody tells me to only eat meat and then tells me you will be healthy and you will not get cancer, do they expect me to believe that?

To discuss something as if it were a solid science and not “experimental” is a misrepresentation of the FACTS?

So where are your FACTS?

References: (a small fraction; the list is endless)

1. Continuous Update Project Interim Report Summary. Food, Nutrition, Physical Activity, and the Prevention of Colorectal Cancer. World Cancer Research Fund / American Institute for Cancer Research.; 2011.

2. Bartke A: Minireview: role of the growth hormone/insulin-like growth factor system in mammalian aging. Endocrinology 2005; 146 :3718-3723.

3. Chitnis MM, Yuen JS, Protheroe AS, et al: The type 1 insulin-like growth factor receptor pathway. Clin Cancer Res 2008; 14:6364-6370.

4. Werner H, Bruchim I: The insulin-like growth factor-I receptor as an oncogene. Arch Physiol Biochem 2009; 115 :58-71.

5. Davies M, Gupta S, Goldspink G, et al: The insulin-like growth factor system and colorectal cancer: clinical and experimental evidence. Int J Colorectal Dis 2006; 21:201-208.

6. Sandhu MS, Dunger DB, Giovannucci EL: Insulin, insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), IGF binding proteins, their biologic interactions, and colorectal cancer. J Natl Cancer Inst 2002; 94:972-980.

7. Giovannucci E, Pollak MN, Platz EA, et al: A prospective study of plasma insulin-like growth factor-1 and binding protein-3 and risk of colorectal neoplasia in women. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2000; 9 :345-349.

8. Ma J, Pollak MN, Giovannucci E, et al: Prospective study of colorectal cancer risk in men and plasma levels of insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-I and IGF-binding protein-3. J Natl Cancer Inst 1999; 91 :620-625.

9. Renehan AG, Zwahlen M, Minder C, et al: Insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-I, IGF binding protein-3, and cancer risk: systematic review and meta-regression analysis. Lancet 2004; 363: 1346-1353.

10. Shi R, Yu H, McLarty J, et al: IGF-I and breast cancer: a meta-analysis. Int J Cancer 2004; 111: 418-423.

11. Rowlands MA, Gunnell D, Harris R, et al: Circulating insulin-like growth factor peptides and prostate cancer risk: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Int J Cancer 2009;124:2416-2429.

12. Cannata D, Fierz Y, Vijayakumar A, et al: Type 2 diabetes and cancer: what is the connection? Mt Sinai J Med 2010; 77:197-213.

13. Venkateswaran V, Haddad AQ, Fleshner NE, et al: Association of diet-induced hyperinsulinemia with accelerated growth of prostate cancer (LNCaP) xenografts. J Natl Cancer Inst 2007; 99 :1793-1800.

14. Thissen JP, Ketelslegers JM, Underwood LE: Nutritional regulation of the insulin-like growth factors. Endocr Rev 1994; 15 :80-101.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) closed #59

Admittedly, I haven’t read this thread to the end, but the bickering I did read is enough. This thread is closed. The admin staff will discuss whether it should be reopened at some point.