The carnivore diet is not a low carb diet? (and not necessarily ketogenic) Dr Gabrielle Lyon



Ground beef (or bison) for your first meal each day.

Over all a very interesting podcast episode by Dr. Salad.

The link in the video clip (below) is time stamped to the statement about the carnivore diet not being low carb and not necessarily ketogenic.

Earlier in the podcast Dr. Lyon talks about why she may not recommend a ketogenic diet, especially long term (after initial ‘honeymoon’ benefits), for her female patients. Spoiler - relates to hormones and, in particular, thyroid hormone.

It’s just cutting edge dietary discussion… for discussion.

(Troy) #2


I was highly intrigued by the setting and ambiance

Great Interview in the "Lyon Den " :wink:
And the Lyon, holding her precious cub every so tightly…:heart:

At any moment I was awaiting to see a Bison run by in the background and then the Lyon attack!!

I digress


Salad meets Lyon.

Salad will be safe.

He only seems troubled by vegans.


Minute 47: Great points on ketogenic not being great for many females’ thyroids (no doubt of the midlife variety) unless somewhat cycled!

Minute 49 They touch on Metabolic flexibility!

Minute 59 on brain size and B12, and how soil-based B12 involves human manure (which the vegans leave out of it)

And at 1:04 in the leucine discussion, the promotion of whey protein as a great alternative for those that can handle dairy as a way to get protein. And that ground meats and whey may be more conducive for some folks.

1:07 fasting for the aged is not good - it puts them at high risk. 2-3 meals a day with quality protein is so protective in its nutrients for the brain and the body in a time a life when sarcopenia becomes permanent.

Love the critical discussion of Harvard dishonesty, bias, and unethical funding too. This has been an issue for a long time - the investigative journalism book “How Harvard Rules” published in the 90s went in depth on similar things related to elitism and industry.

(Ian) #5

have heard Bart Kay mention that long term keto is not advisable in relation to the thyroid gland.

Is this a valid concern for a long term keto’er and are there any other potential adverse effects ovwr the long term ?

(Karen) #6

Always a question. Our bodies are so ooo complex.


Yesssss…! Complex like ever-changing, beautiful universes lolol.

(Bunny) #8

The research on meat only eaters is so scarce like non-existent, but from what I can gather from guessing at the biological pathways being utilized your still burning sugar directly when a certain amount is over consumed (no longer in ketosis) then it stores the glucose it creates from it into glycogen and when under consumed it is releasing glycogen that it stored from that. So it is kind of doing a metabolic switching thing to get some glucose to keep glucose dependent biological processes and organs functioning properly.

(Bunny) #9

Interesting enough there have been a lot of people on the forum in the past with severe thyroid conditions that will swear up and down and almost ready to reach through the screen and choke me that, that’s not true and that keto healed there thyroid, so I will leave it at that?

(Bunny) #10

That makes sense because the B-12 a human produces is so far down in the distal part of the colon that it does not get absorbed.


I’ve been musing that B12 in the soil in vegetarian regions of India (due to latrines and non-latrine outdoor toileting, and what happens with the monsoon rain flooding) may have played a hidden role in keeping traditional vegetarians there mentally better off than the average western vegetarian up until recently when B12 supplementation in the west got popularized.

(Bunny) #12

You know that must be the quote “B-12 soil quality” the Vegans talk about on YouTube but they don’t mention the poo part…lol

I’m sitting here cracking up because that has to be it, human poo is the only way your going to get around that B-12 thing?


Vitamin B12 in human feces (humanure) used on vegetable growing gardens.

Nobody is saying the further point that if you eat poo there is a high risk of serious infection of many forms (e.g. cholera)

I wonder if many short on time functional medicine practitioners rely on Chris Kresser as a knowledge source. He is a determined researcher and clear communicator (my opinion).

This media appeared on New Years Day. It’s about B12 from ‘soil’ that vegans show is a non animal source for a vegan diet. Time marked for your convenience.

(Karen) #14

Do we get B12 in the soil from any other animals? He mentions ruminants being foregut. But I wonder if some of their B12 gets into the soil as we well.

(Bunny) #15

Yeah that’s a good question but I’m not sure?

I’m thinking a little human poo always makes into the growing soil but you don’t want so much that it is overwhelming the roots of the plants ability to separate pathogens and that has more to do with the hormones and diverse bacteria in the soil besides what is used as the fertilizer and how roots interact with it.

Too much human waste and you may end up with pathogens transferring from the soil to the plant but it may make the bacteria in the soil more diverse than any other substance or type of feces or fertilizer and more compatible for human consumption and give us a dose of that missing B-12?

Darn that was supposed to be a brief reply, now turned into horticulture 101…lol

I’m also thinking that there must some amount of dietary cobalt in the human diet to make B-12 at the distal part of the colon?

(Karen) #16

Thank you. I don’t mind your long answers, I always find what you have to say very interesting. Especially your balanced approach.

(Full Metal Carnivore AF) #18

Well @FrankoBear, I was busy when I hit this thread when first posted and intended to get back to it. I didn’t check here but ended up finding a great podcast with Zach Bitter and Shawn Baker interviewing her. I thought that was what you’d referenced. Really great stuff though.

Episode 71 of Human Performance Outliers

I forgot the one you posted was with Dr. Paul Saladino, now I have another to catch up with. :cowboy_hat_face:


Vitamin D is required to produce thyroid hormones indirectly.

This thread smells of groupthink in regards to B12. Next thing I’m going to hear is that humans can’t produce their own Vitamin C.

(Elizabeth ) #20

Actually from the carnivores I know that actually test their blood sugar and ketones, they stay in mild ketosis all the time. gluconeogenesis is demand driven your body doesn’t randomly produce sugar just because protein is there. That’s an energy expensive process. A lot of that excess if there is any gets wasted. The science is actually coming out to show that. Dr Ben Bikman is doing much research in this.

(Full Metal Carnivore AF) #21

Basically I believe this theory too. However it might be different than we believe. I was watching Human Performance Outliers No.71 yesterday interviewing Gabrielle Lyon. She speaks of her work with Dr. Don Layman in it. She stated that metabolizing 100g of protein releases 60g of glucose. Slow and steady as we break protein into amino acids the glucose holding them together is released during that process. Not saying it isn’t ketogenic but maybe the glucose number we need goes far beyond what we get from 20g of carbs if gluconeogenisis is making up the difference. How much glucose in our blood actually defines ketosis? If we’re manufacturing it all by breaking protein down I’m gonna bet the need is much higher than 20g. Since meat releases a slow even amounts then BG stays flat from glucose we get from meat digestion, not spiked waves of glucose like we get eating carbs. I believe in the need driven model as well as the release of glucose metabolizing protein into amino acids. I’m pretty sure long chain fats broken down into triglycerides also have glucose bonds that are broken and freed doing that. Complex processes that can’t easily be generalized on. :cowboy_hat_face: