(Tentative) lessons learned from my "12.000kcals in one day" experiment

(German Ketonian) #21

My fasting blood glucose is around 90-110 mg/DL. After working out, it can creep up to 120 (due to lacking insulin). After a meal, I barely get a BG response at all. my blood sugar usually stays within a 80-120 range, no matter if I eat, sleep, fast, work out or do nothing.

(German Ketonian) #22

I so far have never encountered a reading of below 82, even after fasting for 2 days.

(German Ketonian) #23

On the plus side: Iā€™ve never had a reading beyond 120 (and that was after working out, not eating).

(VLC.MD) #24

Cool ideas Zimon.
The 1 day aspect of the experiment seems a bit short.

Any intervention to show change needs time. n=1 experiments that lasts 3-5-7 days might yield more information.

EDIT: a more moderate Intervention (less than 12,000/day) for a longer period of time could yield interesting information.

(Ethan) #25

This doesnā€™t seem that high to me. Here are some data points for an insulin-resistant person (me):

When I was not ketogenic: Morning fasting levels were generally 150-250 mg/dL

When Ketogenic: Morning fasting levels are generally 90 mg/dL at 5:00 am, but climb to 130 mg/dL often by 7:30 am

When on an extended fast: Morning fasting levels are generally 80-100 mg/dL at the high point.

(German Ketonian) #26

But I think most people would consider my levels high for an insulin-sensitive person on keto

(Ethan) #27

Iā€™m not sure. Iā€™ve heard of those numbers as normal. The original debate though is about the effect insulin sensitivity has on whether one stays in ketosis based on macro ratios or absolute levels of carbohydrate consumption.

(Ernest) #28

Might need a disclaimer in bold with this experiment.
Health wise you are good, correct?
Weight wise, you already hit your goal, correct?

Just in case someone gets excited and decides to dig into a loaf of brioche bread.

(German Ketonian) #29

Sure thing! I am healthy and in the normal BMI range!

(German Ketonian) #30

Really? I always read that peoples BG goes down all the way when they are in ketosis, even in the low 70s. For me, itā€™s been going rather up, perhaps due to insulin resistance. I just wonder, why people with d2 note a significant improvement in der BG levels, while mine went up, though Iā€™m considered healthy. I can see that the keto diet has leveled thing out for me. I am far more BG stable than before. I used to be hypoglycemic more often (as you would expect from following a high-carb regimen). But I donā€™t get why it balanced itself out in the relative high numbersā€¦

(Ethan) #31

Iā€™ve read of normal people getting both higher- and lower-than-normal BG while on keto. Hypoglycemia on SAD indicates insulin resistance.

(German Ketonian) #32

Very strange, so perhaps I have been insulin resistant in the high-carb diet. But that wouldnā€™t chime with the results of my ultra cheat day yesterday. The intricacies of the human bodyā€¦

(German Ketonian) #33

Seems like Leanne Vogel has a chapter about adaptive glucose sparing in her book. She basically says this can appear, particularly in healthy and slim people on keto. Her description and many othersā€™ description fit my BG profile: Highest in the morning fasting, and usually staying within a very narrow range of 90-110 without spikes after meals or anything. Vogel says one should think of it as ā€œthe opposite of diabetesā€ (meaning a sign of insulin sensitivity.

(German Ketonian) #34

Oops I did it again, so here goes:

Yesterday, I had my OGTT, so with the additional 75g of carbs, I thought to myself this was a good opportunity to further my experiment whether the total amount of carbs matter, or whether the macro ratio is important, irrespective of absolute numbers (see above).

I consumed about 9.500 calories yesterday with a macro breakdown of 900g of fat, 250g of protein, and 175g of carbs. I wanted to make sure I hit the magic number of 150g of carbs, which is supposed to be the upper limit of whatā€™s regarded as ā€œlow-carbā€. Well, here is the result:

Got a 2.2 mmol/L on my blood ketone meter and 0.6% BrAC (0.06% BAC) on three different cheapo alcohol breathalizers. I think itā€™s safe to say, Iā€™m still in ketosis and probably was never out in the first place.

(Justin Traer) #35

I concur. A single day is not long enough to say much about this protocol.

(Todd Allen) #36

Thatā€™s quite amazing. My ability to stay in ketosis at higher levels of carbs and protein is much much better than it was when I began keto over a year ago but still a fraction of that. Recently, Iā€™ve been sustaining about 0.5 mmol/L blood ketones and 0.03% BAC while eating roughly 70 g net low glycemic carbs and 130 g protein daily. I expect just the OGTT alone would have dropped me below that minimal level of ketosis.

So how was your blood sugar with the OGTT and the crazy feasting?

(Richard Hanson) #37

Hi Zimon,

I applaud your efforts, but I donā€™t think your design yields much useful information.

A better approach might be to eat your normal keto intake and then once a week, eat nothing but carbohydrates until you find that level of carb consumption that does reliably kick you out of ketosis when you are eating only carbs. It would be best if the source of carbs was always the same. After that is established, you can hold that number constant and then add fat back into the diet to see if you can find a level of simultaneous fat consumption that will keep you in ketosis despite consuming that level of carbs that has show to reliably kick you out of ketosis. Before each individual iteration, start in a state of ketosis.

If this works, if you find a level of fat intake which will allow you to eat that same volume of carbs and stay in ketosis, then reverse the process and hold the fat consumption constant at that level while incrementally increase the level of carbohydrate consumption until you are once again dropping out of ketosis.

I would try to eat no protein at all. Work on just two inputs at first and exclude an additional set of variables associated with also including protein intake.

Thank you so very much for what you have already done. It is an interesting idea and rather entertaining to think about.

Keto for Life!

Most Respectfully,
Richard