Dude, lighten up. Being harsh is not cool and telling someone they need therapy is also not cool. Addiction isn’t all mental either so it’s not something to laugh about or gloss over.
If it helps someone get and keep healthy to occasionally indulge great, but if you find the occasional becomes often or binge-like, then far best to not indulge again.
I came to this forum to be in like-minded surroundings, not to see people verbally take on other people.
Yes.
:: enters the confessional… :: 𝘍𝘰𝘳𝘨𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘦, 𝘍𝘢𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘔𝘪𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘦𝘭, 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘐 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘥…
Holy Crow… If we’re really being honest, then yes. Heck yes, and more than just “challenge’” it’s also a fairly frequent giving-in on my part. I’m not advocating this, at all. This is why I’m sometimes stalled, and why - after 3+ years I still have more weight to lose. But good grief yes - and should there be a ‘trigger’ warning here? 
Pizza, sweet milk chocolate, a pan of cooked white rice with butter, salt and pepper on it. Dried hunks of mango, berry cakes, cheesecakes, Crème brûlée, berry tarts, chocolate chip cookies and variations thereon - cookies with so many nuts and finely-chopped nuts and pulverized nuts that they sweat oil and are the best-tasting things ever…
Okay, I’m off to eat 4 or 5 hard-boiled eggs and shudder…
My first post on this forum so please be gentle. When I make brownies for my hubby and decide to eat just a crumb, I’ll have a physical reaction. The taste seems to amplify in my mouth and immediately I feel a surge in heart rate and a strong drive to get more. I really have to fight hard to hold myself back. In fact I can see myself pushing aside anyone trying to detain me. Now the other side of this craziness is if he puts the brownies up on top of the fridge, I’m okay. I’m 6 foot tall so reaching is not an issue. I decided anything up there is off limits and somehow that works. Anyway, I can totally relate to the hand over your car keys comment.
It appears you find my remarks to be a personal attack. I’m very sorry; that was not at all my intent. Please forgive me.
It appears two users are talking about TWO different things here: metabolic and mental/emotional aspects of eating occasional carbs. One doesn’t negate the other and I suggest the other stuff (personal opinions) be handled in DMs (ahem, Ken)
Harsh… but true! Sugar and carb loaded food/factory made “food like things” are meant to be addictive! That’s why companies market and make them so appealing (ADDICTIVE) look at cigarette companies only a few years ago - now if you smoke you’re seen as a social leper.
Things and attitudes will change, just not yet and so it’s up to the individual (me & you) to change, and by change you use every tool in the box to help you achieve your weight and MIND goals. And if that includes therapy for addiction then so be it…
most things are addictive, it’s an animals nature, we all want to be warm and comfortable and food is #1 on every animals list of priorities.
We can’t help it, it’s hard wired into our DNA!
You can’t fix the problem/addiction without fixing the mind first.
No, not at first. In fact, the first year- I was fine. But, now…YES. What I think triggered the onset of more cravings was simply having a bit of wedding cake in June. Yes, June. Little by little, the cravings have now come back in full force. I fight and fight. Sometimes win, sometimes lose.
I gotta go full on Yoda-mode. … Do or do not. There is no “try”.
Some years ago I lost 50 pounds on Atkins. On Christmas day I gave in to pressure to have one piece of pie. I struggled with cravings for the next 15 years.
Yes, holiday periods are a bit worrying! I’ll be having two days completely off with all the trimmings, roast potatoes, beef Wellington and everything else over the Christmas period.
Then back into keto after that!
Paul states for some people quite clearly.
This abusive tirade does not accurately address what Paul said.
I hear that! Pretty sure I’m part of that 20%.
What I recall doing in the beginning was the process of Keto+ IF+EF+Carnivore. In that order. Fasting helped teach me not to worry about eating so much, and to realize I ain’t gonna die if I go 3-7 days without food. Heck, I wasn’t even hungry after I became fat-adapted! I had lost all of my cravings. Then, that wedding and that darn cake! LOL! Ugh. Never shoulda had it.
There was a discussion on another thread where I went into this a bit. What helped my mindset to recover some and regain my prior enthusiasm/mojo…whatever you want to call it… wasn’t some encouraging pep talk, or long awaited shopping spree. Nope. It was going back and re-reading older posts, and a couple other writings elsewhere that described the process of and emotions tied to losing my Dad, Mom and brother. My brother’s death had the most profound affect, given that he was only 52 at the time…two years older than me. And, how his poor dietary choices, along with the plethora of medications he was on - led him down a painful, obese path. He left behind a wife and two children - and a massive group of friends and relatives who loved him dearly. And, his baby sister. I vowed I’d never let myself go down that road. My heartache was stronger than my love for sugar and carbs. It needs to stay that way. There is no amount of infrequent indulging that I can manage, is what it boils down to. The taste, texture- whatever it is - I have to move mountains in order to rid myself of it. It’s like letting a weed grow- unchecked- in the garden. The damn things take over before you know it, and choke out the good growth and progress.
I’ve gone through 12 step programs for overeating, for bulimia and anorexia, done Atkins and nearly every other diet program. NOTHING has worked like going mostly carnivore, with an occasional veg. I admire those who can cross the line, indulge, and then get back in the right lane. Wish I could do that. Call it mental illness or addiction or whatever… it is what it is. And, it IS something that I cannot manage. Its all or nothing for me. Glad to know I’m not alone. Thank you, PaulL
(Raises hand) Yes, I am also part of the 20%. I wish I wasn’t. I’d dearly love to be one of those “all things in moderation” people. Sadly, I am not. 58 years of wishing otherwise doesn’t make it so. I abstain (though I’m not above glowering at those who can have a single chocolate chip cookie and put the rest away…)
Oh that’s not necessarily all sunshine and roses either. I know very well that I can go a bit wild and I will still feel fine enough that it is worth it as long as I enjoy the food (or suffer if I don’t eat it, sometimes my rebellious inner self has its needs). If I go very wild, I inevitably come back right away, my body craves that, it can’t stay horribly unbalanced. And I don’t gain any fat even if I go off for longer and inevitably overeat. BUT it means I have less motivation to stay on track…! It was worst on keto where I felt about no motivation as keto made nothing better after I unlocked fat-adaptation. Carnivore or anything close to it is a totally different world. I feel the difference when I go off and it’s a good motivation. I still stray for some reasons, it’s a bit unclear to me but it becomes less frequent as I rarely enjoy those times anymore. I loved my off-keto (low-carb) times and now I am broken 
But I am more free now. My end goal is being totally free. I want to eat whatever I fancy and eat almost no carbs that way almost all the time. My body made its points clear, it prefers extreme low carbs. Its displease is usually subtle but still, there must be a reason it is happiest when I just stick to my normal, carnivore(-ish) food. It’s not like anything else tastes better… Just different. And health is my top priority. I am a hedonist, I want to feel the best.
I feel my ability to go off and come back more or less quickly and easily slows down my progress.
When something triggers longer, wilder off times I hate (it hurts my pride and not only that), I easily avoid them in the future (if I really hate the effect, it turns off my desire). The mostly harmless but still not ideal items are worse as I don’t resist and under certain circumstances (December isn’t as easy as January, for example) I can’t find my way back easily… I am fine (carbs can hurt me in big amounts but I learned that ages ago and I don’t go there, it’s easy as my motivation to avoid pain is huge) but I know it’s not ideal.
I still would’nt swap with people who MUST avoid straying away even if that is simpler and more effective. I would feel too restricted. And I would feel I am not healthy enough, phyisically (if I felt pain when eating a bit more carbs) or mentally (losing even more control than what I do… I still have my moments but they are short-lived and not that serious. I must lose all trigger items, their mere existence bother me).
I think most of us need to put serious efforts into this. We just have different hardships and different difficulty level… But it must be rare that it’s all smooth sailing for someone. The food may be great, we may be amazing at saying no to others… There are still dangers and difficulties on the road, I experience that often.
By the way, we can change and evolve… Maybe not everyone regarding their trigger items but I experienced it is possible in many cases. I can eat a tiny amount of some of my old trigger food… But abstaining is usually better and seriously, I don’t need those at all. (But I love to know I CAN use moderation even with them, without really trying.)
I’m sorry; I don’t understand the language those words are in. 
I went to my boss’s office once a week or so. He and his secretary always offered me candy from a bag. After a few weeks I said, “Is that the same bag of candy?” They said yes. Very strange!
Apples to oranges.
I was a very heavy drinker from late 2016. I decided to stop drinking Summer 2018.
After some time of abstinence I went out to dinner a couple of times with my husband - and ordered a split of champagne both times. Both times he took the rest away from me after one glass because my behavior changed. My voice got louder, motor skills impaired, etc.
So sure. I guess I can have one infrequent glass of champagne. And then stop.
But why? It isn’t that amazing. I could get more oysters for the money instead. It is adding nothing to my life.
So that I can brag how mentally strong I am and how much willpower? In real life I am just annoying when I try so…
No champagne for me, thanks. No pie. No carbs while we are at it. It just isn’t needed.
