Supplement Fillers Concern

#1

I have been doing IF with keto for a while (have been doing keto for almost a year) and recently starting doing EF; water fasting for both types. I’ve done two 36-hour+ fasts in the last week. I would like to do a 72-hour fast starting tonight. I normally put salt and Morton’s No-Salt (potassium) in water, pretty much every day since I IF most days. I usually take a few other vitamins and a low dose of chelated magnesium (about 100mg), which all typically works well for me.

During my second 36-hour fast, I had some times where my heart was really racing and made me uncomfortable. The bursts of norepinephrine were a little freaky that time too (quite intense). I otherwise feel great (minus the fleeting hunger pangs); great energy and exceptionally clear head. I’m wondering if I need more magnesium during EF. My concern is the fillers in the pill form of supplements (and is why I just add salt and potassium to water during fasting), as my primary goal is autophagy and secondary is a boost in weight loss and increasing insulin sensitivity. The magnesium pills I have contain cellulose. I found magnesium powder on Amazon (haven’t bought yet) and it contains citric acid. I haven’t been able to find a solid answer by searching online as to whether either of those fillers raise BG and would stop autophagy. I wonder if anyone on this site might have an educated guess. I also wonder if anyone else has had luck eliminating the heart racing during fasting. I also seem to have an increase in acid reflux symptoms, which have almost entirely disappeared for me since starting keto, and are fine during IF, only a problem during EF.

I still have a lot of weight left to lose and have a very high body fat percentage, so don’t want to or feel the need to ingest fat or anything else during fasting except for water and electrolytes.

Would love to hear from some of you more experienced fasters. I really really want to continue EF, eventually want to work my way up to even longer fasts, and again want to reap the benefits of autophagy.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Cellulose is an indigestible form of fiber. I don’t see how it could possibly affect your blood sugar level. I wouldn’t have thought that citric acid would, either. Have you any reason to believe it might?

#3

Nothing more than my lack of knowledge about it. Thank you for easing my mind about the cellulose. I’ll just stick with my current magnesium supplements, since those are the ones with cellulose. I might also try soaking in epsom salts.

#4

I’ve also heard that mineral water contains magnesium and calcium.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

That, I believe, depends on the source. Spa is famous for its minerals, and that’s one of the selling points of Spa water. I believe Perrier and Pellegrino are both mineral springs, as well. I don’t know if Bath sells its water, because it’s rather high in sulphur, but it’s great to bathe in, and a couple of centuries ago, it was the fashion to drink a glass with each meal in the Pump Room, and even while one was bathing. The exact mineral content will vary greatly, of course, from source to source.

#6

I just read this too. He specifically mentions San Pellegrino. May be worth a try if it’s not too pricey. I’ll have to check my local stores.
https://blog.bulletproof.com/mineral-water-benefits-pellegrino-sulphates/

Mineral Water Benefits: Why I Drink San Pellegrino Every Day

Mineral water is one of the most underrated supplements available. Learn the many mineral water benefits that explain why I drink San Pellegrino every day.

blog.bulletproof.com

(KCKO, KCFO) #7

Too much potassium can cause some people’s hearts to race. If you eat a lot of veggies with it you might not want to supplement that.

Easiest way to get the right amount of magnesium is to bath in it, epsom salt baths allow your body to absorb what you need. 15 min. soak is what was recommended to me when I was having an issue with magnesium. It by passes your stomach, so no tummy upsets using it. I do drink magnesium citrate now as well, as I don’t always want a bath, I’m a shower kind of gal.

Make sure you get plenty of sodium when fasting as it controls what your body does with the other two. The Science threads here should have more in depth information on this topic, be sure to check it out.

#8

Yeah, I may have gone slightly high on the potassium that time. I’m currently on the final day of a 72-hour fast :grinning: I’m feeling much better this time having upped the magnesium and taking my normal amount of potassium (and of course salt). Only periodic (but no fun) hunger pangs this time. In a few weeks I’d like to try a 5-7 day fast to see what it feels like to get to the point where the ghrelin starts to drastically decrease.

#9

And side-note: between this fast and a 36-hour fast last Thursday, I have lost 11 pounds (haven’t weighed myself today, so may be even a bit more).

#10

If you have plenty of potassium in your body, you shouldn’t need to supplement it during short fasts.

Also keep in mind blood serum potassium is not a good measure of total potassium. The body tries really hard to keep the concentration in blood in a narrow range and will move potassium in and out of cells: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK307/

#11

You’re probably right, but I know I need the magnesium or I suffer from terrible leg cramps at night (that goes for keto or fasting).

(Mike W.) #12

Have you tried increasing salt and water to help with cramps?

#13

Yeah, I added that before anything else (I put it in the water I drink). The salt helps, but doesn’t solve it completely on its own. So now I will add salt and potassium (Morton’s No-Salt) to my water and take a magnesium pill.

(Mike W.) #14

Try dissolving it on your tongue. It gets into your blood quicker.

#15

Ever tried magnesium oil? Spray it on and massage it in.
I tried some recently and like it. I had been taking powdered magnesium bisglycinate which is the most disgusting tasting thing I’ve ever had in my life… and I was in the Navy so I’ve had some disgusting food.

#16

I’ve heard of it, but haven’t tried it. Also was thinking of trying epsom salt soaks. Is the spray fast-acting?

#17

Not sure about how quickly it works but since it is directly absorbed without going through the digestive tract it is probably pretty quick. Also, since it skips the gut it won’t make you suddenly run for the nearest throne room.
The benefits seems to be numerous and it’s just magnesium and water without any fillers so it’s worth a shot and can even be easily made at home if you buy the flakes.
I picked up the oil premade from Vitamin Shoppe and also ordered some flakes from Amazon to make my own when I run out of the premade stuff.
I also use epsom salts but I do foot soaks.

#18

I will have to order some to give it a try. Also, I lol’d at your navy food comment. :joy:

(Donna ) #19

I tried the magnesium spray but it made me itch so bad, I had to wash it off. I gave it away.

I’m afraid to try the epsom salt bath because I will get hives at the drop of a hat. Maybe I could try just soaking my feet in it?

(Todd Allen) #20

I’ve been using magnesium citrate powder bought in bulk (1 kg bags) for the past year. I spent a fair amount of effort looking at the various options. It is somewhat challenging to find detailed info on each of the options for supplemental magnesium and I probably don’t have the facts 100% correct but I’ll share my beliefs.

Magnesium citrate is a salt of citric acid. Citric acid supposedly has 2.5 calories per gram - it’s not a carbohydrate, protein or fat. When our mitochondria produce energy oxidizing any of the 3 macro nutrients citric acid is an intermediate in the process, sometimes called the citric acid cycle. Ingested citric acid is absorbed into the blood but is aggressively filtered by the kidneys so most is lost. Some is absorbed by the liver and probably burned for energy or converted to triglyceride depending on one’s metabolic state. Citric acid is naturally present in many foods and appears to be relatively harmless maybe beneficial.

I like the bulk powder form. It is inexpensive and easy to use in whatever quantity desired. I find that in most any dish I cook moist - stews, soups and most anything with a sauce or gravy - the dish is improved by the addition of magnesium citrate which slightly thickens the sauce in a smooth creamy sort of way I like, especially since I’ve stopped using starches, flours and other carbohydrate based thickeners. Typically when making an appropriate dish for my wife and myself, roughly 3 or 4 times/week, I’ll add 1 tablespoon of magnesium citrate, 1 teaspoon of calcium citrate and 1/2 teaspoon of potassium chloride along with sea salt to taste which seems to be giving us a good balance of electrolytes.