Sugar not bad for you, Carbs don’t make you fat

[KetoType2]

“What the Health” on Amazon Prime Video. Has anybody seen this garbage documentary? The producer must be related to Ancel Keys.

[Polly1]

I wouldn’t waste my time on it. My confirmation bias is fully formed and thriving!

[atomicspacebunny]

You eat too much sugar it will make you fat or more than you can store in the muscle, liver and oxidize?

I could eat 2 Twinkie’s every three hours and burn body fat, not very nutritious though. Adipose tissue has little tiny chrono-oscillators or clocks embedded in the suprachiasmatic nucleus and will let the lipids escape rather than going into storage mode.

Take all the air out of a Twinkie it would look tiny.

Avoid whole grains…lol

[Polly1]

Many people here are carb addicts. They could not eat two twinkies because it would cause a total twinkie binge. (Glad to say we don’t have twinkies in the UK. Nasty fake food. Pah!)

[Shinita]

I know sugar is bad for me so I don’t even care… (My body is able to handle a tiny amount but more is a very, very bad idea.)
Carbs made me eating insane amount of fat, I don’t care what we consider at fault (I blame the carbs, obviously and I know I am right) but I had to lower my carbs for sure. And guess what, I even felt better.

At this point, I don’t even CARE what is carb for the average person or for my ancient anchestors. They are bad for me in bigger amounts, period.

Bunny, of course people lose fat eating even lots of sugars… Not me by my own will, but many people do it… Calories matter and sugars may satiate people perfectly for a long time too. Not me, again.

It’s obviously a complex topic. I don’t consider carbs bad in general, it’s not that simple. I usually avoid them as much as I comfortable can as I should do that. But it’s really complicated.

[FrankoBear]

They might not be wrong.

If one can deplete liver glycogen and some muscle glycogen every 24 hours then there is no great harm in the glucose half of table sugar. Glucose is toxic at high levels, but if it is readily stored and released without overload, then things should be biochemically OK.

Yep, sweet carbohydrate addiction. That’s a major confounder.

The other is the fructose and the potential toxicity of the fructose metabolites.

Regarding the actual documentary:

As a Grandfather my daughter is worrying me

Hi Nigel. Your concern is noted. The “What the Health” documentary you correctly identify as an anti-meat vegan ethical agenda film. As such, it is not the best source for human nutrition information. A vegan lifestyle for 18 months may be healthier than the standard dietary advice. After that there is the real risk of nutrient deficiency illnesses. The approach can be really nuanced as a well formulated vegan vegetarian diet is a successful healthy way of eating for some people. Here is a f…

[VirginiaEdie]

Tim Noakes was a marathon/ultra runner. I would imagine he depleted muscle glycogen quite often. He still developed type 2 diabetes or was at least pre diabetic if I recall correctly.

[PaulL]

If one can deplete liver glycogen and some muscle glycogen every 24 hours then there is no great harm in the glucose half of table sugar.

I’m not so sure about that. If one is consistently secreting a high level of insulin, there is cumulative damage being caused from that fact alone. Not to mention the fat storage from turning excess glucose into triglycerides. Though I grant you, the less fructose the liver has to handle, the better.

[OgreZed]

“What the Health” on Amazon Prime Video. Has anybody seen this garbage documentary? The producer must be related to Ancel Keys.

There are many discussions about it on the group:

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/search?q=%22what%20the%20health%22

[FrankoBear]

Tim Noakes was a marathon/ultra runner. I would imagine he depleted muscle glycogen quite often. He still developed type 2 diabetes or was at least pre diabetic if I recall correctly.

I have to think harder and explain a bit clearer with references. I’m trying to remember my sources.

Yes it is important to note the difference between liver glycogen and muscle glycogen storage. The liver glycogen is used to preserve the blood glucose concentration for tissues and cells that are glucose dependent. Gah, the information is hovering at the edge of my brain. I think it was an Ivor Cummins guest… The muscle glycogen is almost always preserved for use within the muscle tissue once it is stored there, rather than being a general glucose reserve. Hence physical activity is beneficial in drawing energy from the body’s nutrient stores when the muscle glycogen is depleted. I think the liver glycogen storage and release is the primary factor in blood glucose regulation (outside of dietary inputs).

@PaulL

If one is consistently secreting a high level of insulin

Insulin secretion is demand driven in response to dietary carbohydrates and some amino acids? (except in some rare pancreatic tumours that secrete insulin)

I’ll qualify my initial statement accordingly. In the situation where one is not constantly secreting a high level of insulin one can deplete liver glycogen and some muscle glycogen every 24 hours then there is no great harm in the glucose half of table sugar. For example, people who eat higher carbohydrate diets but are naturally eating in a time regulated manner (feeding windows) with no snacking.

[PaulL]

Yes it is important to note the difference between liver glycogen and muscle glycogen storage.

The main difference being that muscle glycogen, once formed, cannot leave the muscle, it must be metabolised there. Whereas liver glycogen can be shared.

He still developed type 2 diabetes or was at least pre diabetic

He developed full-blown Type II. Although, Dr. Joseph Kraft always argued that people should have been diagnosed as diabetics twenty years earlier than the standard diagnostic criteria allowed for, so the distinction between pre-diabetes and diabetes is less clear-cut than we often assume.

[ctviggen]

For example, people who eat higher carbohydrate diets but are naturally eating in a time regulated manner (feeding windows) with no snacking.

You know, the body is just so complex… I ate a Pritikin diet for a long while. You know, egg whites, rice cakes, skim milk, very high carb, very low fat. The problem is that it’s really not filling if you develop any insulin sensitivity at all. I could eat oats or pasta…and be freaking starving 15 minutes later. On the other hand, I was exercising a ton: walking miles at school; riding my racing bike 2-3 times per week; weight lifting multiple times per week; tennis; etc. I’m sure that helped to counteract the high carb aspect.

I think you can eat very high carb and very low fat…or high (animal) fat, low carb, possibly with no issues. It’s the in between where it gets “fuzzy”.

Some say PUFAs are required to gain fat. I’m hesitant to rely on that, because of my own personal experience and other black swans I see. But PUFAs I do think have an effect, even for keto people.

Some say you can eat high carb + high saturated fat (the croissant diet). I’ve experimented with this… and don’t know, though I also have issues with any of the carbs. Eg, wheat and I don’t get along.

And then you throw in the addictive nature of carbs, and everything’s unclear.

Add in 10+ years of SAD and massive damage to your (my?) pancreas, liver, fat system, etc., and then it’s even more confusing.

I think if you could exactly balance “need” of carbs with carbs, everything might be fine (at least when you’re young, without damage). It’s when carbs > need where it’s fuzzy. How much does the “>” have to be? And there is, of course, no way to determine “need”.

Factor in us low carbers, and it’s even more difficult. I work out three days per week, as hard as I can those days, do a lot of work on my house, and remain keto. Those “carbs” to replace glycogen, run whatever cells that need carbs, etc. are coming from somewhere.

That’s my ramble for now.