Stupid Newbie Questions Plz Help

newbies
(Seth) #1

Hi ya’ll.

I’m here from the keto subreddit, having recently learned about keto from there. After finding this site and going through discussions and videos, I’ve got some questions that I’m well aware are really dumb, but I still want the answers lol. I apologize if I’ve just not looked hard enough or if this should be obvious stuff.

I’ve been keto for about a month and a half now. The last couple weeks I’ve been doing omad, and actually really enjoying it. I’ve very quickly gotten to a point where I’m not even hungry for that one meal, and have been stuffing myself in order to reach my macros (I know some people say macros are unnecessary but I feel having at least some structure in what numbers I’m supposed to hit really helps me stick to all this). I want to try bumping my fasting up to OMEOD, and possibly higher than that, but I’m really not sure how to do it. If I only eat a meal once every other day, do I eat my whole day’s macros for that day, or do I eat all my macros for both days combined? In other words, am I actually skipping one whole day of eating/macros, or am I just postponing all my macros for two full days to the night of the second day?

On higher fasts, like 5/2, how much are you supposed to be eating on your feast days? Just as much as you want? strictly to satiety? Just hitting your macros for those days? Honestly, I’m hoping it’s something to do with my macros, because as I said, having those numbers there really helps me manage everything. Fasting isn’t difficult for me at all. I’m honestly certain I could adjust to a 5/2 without any problems (though I want to try omeod first), my only problem would be what to eat and how much to eat when I’m eating, Macros tell me that, so the decision is taken from me.

Also, I just watched a video interview with Dr.Fung (whom I just found from this site) and he mentioned that fat burning starts around 36 hours into a fast. Is that about right? Should at least 36 hours be the minimum goal point? I can do it I’m just curious.

One of my last questions, and surely dumbest of all is, This is all water fasting right? Like, I’m okay to drink water? I’ve done both water fasts and dry fasts in the past. I’ve seen so many people saying how hard fasting is over on the keto subreddit and I just don’t get it…unless they’re talking about dry fasting. That would…be really hard for me personally, I freaking love water. So, with all these fasting protocols, should/can I be drinking water? And if so, how much? How much is too much?

My last and other dumb questions are follow up to the water one, what else can I be drinking? I’ve been swapping out water every couple of days for a bottle of this gatorade water, called propel I believe, just because it’s water with electrolytes and all that good stuff, and I like the flavor. Is something like that alright? What about my one legitimate weakness that so far keto has allowed…Monster? I get the zero calorie, zero sugar stuff. It’s 2 net carbs per can. I love that stuff. I could cut it, but I’d really rather not if I don’t have to, as it’s about the only thing waking me up in the morning.

I hope ya’ll can help me and give me a few pointers, I’m very excited to try out extended fasting, I’m just really confused as to what I’m supposed to eat once the fast ends, and what I can drink, if I can drink at all. I apologize again for ignorance, I’m still learning, and I appreciate all your help.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

By all means, drink water, or even bone broth. Without all the carbs we used to eat, our kidneys excrete salt and water at a higher rate, so we have to work a bit to keep up, so a cup or two of bone broth a day is a good idea. My understanding is that the calories are negligible and won’t interfere with the benefits of fasting.

All the experts from Dr. Fung to Dr. Phinney to Prof. Bikman advise against fasting for too long at a time. Especially since you are probably not fully fat-adapted yet, go easy for now. If it happens naturally, that’s one thing, but don’t push it, just yet. Full fat-adaptation generally takes 6 to 8 weeks, sometimes longer.
As for the quantity to eat, the standard advice is when you feast, feast! Don’t underdo it, though if you get to the point of struggling to choke food down, you’ve probably gone too far, lol! It also helps if you have a lot of excess fat to burn; lean people have a lot harder time fasting.

(Muhammad Nasim) #3

What reason do these guys give for not fasting for too long a time? Particularly Dr. Fung as I don’t find Dr. Phinney’s reasoning against extended fasting convincing. Specifically what is the max duration Dr. Fung is ok with and why?

(Seth) #4

Thank you, I was just kinda starting to jump in head first having only been introduced to the idea of fasting and was running into a lot of conflicting information, or just info that was very incomplete. I believe I’m fat adapted from keto at this point, and I’ve begun fasting on weekdays, eating on weekends. It’s been surprisingly easy as I just find I’m not really hungry anymore, again I’m sure fat adaptation helps with that, and I definitely do have plenty of excess fat to burn lol. Thanks again for your insight!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

As I recall Megan Ramos’ presentation at Ketofest this year, the maximum she and Dr. Fung recommend is about three days at a time. As I understand it, the concern is the loss of muscle tissue, the amount of which is small but not negligible over time. Dr. Phinney relies on the study by George Cahill, entitled Starvation in Man.

As I have mentioned in a number of posts in other threads, however, people have been conducting 40-day water-only fasts for millennia, primarily for religious reasons, without serious ill effects. The Christian spiritual literature with which I am familiar does warn, however, that a fast that long must be trained for and built up to, and that a neophyte to fasting cannot start out by fasting that long. They make it sound quite a lot like the spiritual equivalent of a marathon (and remember, Pheidippides is supposed to have died making the second round-trip from Marathon to Athens).

The Christian sources also warn stringently against attempting to fast for longer than 40 days, on the grounds that past that point one has crossed the boundary between spiritual benefit and self-harm.

(Janelle) #6

I need to read up on the science of fasting. It doesn’t appeal to me at all and I read a post yesterday where someone posted what he ate after an extended fast. That amount of food would be torture - he said he ate for 4 hours. Oof. OMAD or shorter fasting seems healthier from a metabolism perspective.

(Running from stupidity) #7

IIRC, I read it as eating it across four hours, not solidly for four hours.

(Janelle) #9

Even so, it was a tremendous amount of food he was eating. I can’t find the exact amounts but it was pounds of food.

(Muhammad Nasim) #10

Hi I’ve never come across Megan Ramos and Dr Fung citing muscle loss as the reason to limit to 3 days fasting nor even a limit of 3 days. Dr Fung put out a video blasting Dr Phinneys muscle loss view. Also Dr Fung’s IDM forum supports fasts up to 10 days and says for longer you need medical supervision.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #11

Well, I could have misunderstood Ms. Ramos’ presentation, but that’s how I remember it. I remember being a bit surprised that they didn’t seem in favor of fasting any longer than that.

(Muhammad Nasim) #12

Maybe they changed their expressed view or sth and also there’s “what a doctor can say without fear of being sued” vs what they really think!