Studies comparing LDL with CAC scores


(Alec) #1

Has anyone seen any research comparing CAC scores with LDL levels? Now that we have technology like a CAC scan, surely a great way to test the diet heart hypothesis would be test and compare CAC scan results with LDL levels (or other “cholesterol” measures) to see whether there is a correlation between a CAC scan score and an LDL number?

If that is a dumb idea, why is it dumb?


(Bruce) #2

Great idea but I reckon the ‘diet heart hypothesis’ (fat is bad for you and raises your cholesterol) guys will hate it!
Not sure what’s out there but I recall Ivor Cummins mentioning something I think???


(Bruce) #3

Don’t know whether this is what you’re looking for but it does do some comparison. I’ve not looked at the source paper yet though.


(Bacon is the new bacon) #4

Because if the results turn out as I suspect, the pharmaceutical companies will lose billions in statin sales. Their poor CEO’s won’t receive their $80,000,000 bonuses and will have to sell a couple of their vacation houses and live in shame thereafter. That’s why it’s a dumb idea . . . :grin:


(Alec) #5

That is kinda what I was looking for but not quite. The REALLY interesting fact in there is that the CVD risk calculator does NOT use LDL level, and of course, Ivor shows that LDL level does not predict CVD at all. So the risk calculator guys know this. So…

… yes, of course, how stupid of me not to recognise why this would be a terrible idea. No wonder nobody has actually done it. :rage:


(Bacon is the new bacon) #6

Here are some studies that turned up in a cursory search on “LDL CAC” in PubMed:


(Alec) #7

Paul
Thanks!! I am never very good at reading original research. I always get lost in the scientific jargon. I might give these a shot and see if I can make head or tail of them.


(Bacon is the new bacon) #8

I have trouble with the jargon, too, and I am far from ignorant (lots of medical people among my family and friends) or stupid. I also find that some of the details literally make my eyes glaze over (it’s a weird feeling, LOL!). But let us persevere. Something is bound to sink in, and it is sometimes possible to tell just from the wording, whether the researchers are biased or not about what their data are telling them.

Dr. Malcolm Kendrick, a Scottish cardiologist with an acerbic sense of humor, discusses a lot of these matters on his blog. He says that a lot of studies should be printed out, crumpled up, and tossed in the recycling bin. (Well, it was funny in context!) He also feels that once you know the players, you can tell just from the researchers’ names what conclusions the paper will reach.


(Kenneth Russell) #9

N=1 Study going on with me…
55 year old Male
LCHF/KETO more than 5 years
200+ pounds lost
T2 Diabetes reversed
Taking no prescription drugs
Active- 15k daily steps on average with some cardio
TC 350+
LDL-C 250+
HDL 75 to 80
TG 45 to 65
VLDL 10 to 13

January 2017 CAC score of 347- 91st percentile for my age
Started following Ivor Cummins supplement recommendations
May 2019 CAC score of 158 - 75th percentile for my age
That’s a 54% CAC scrore reduction in 28 months!
My LAD score fell from 101 to 16 - 85% drop.
My doctor & cardiologist - baffled, yet still pushing the statin
Me - I’m hoping that this is a good thing. I feel like I am in uncharted waters. But I ain’t changing anything. Planning another follow up in 2 years.


(Alec) #10

This is freakin’ AWESOME!!! Brilliant. You are the poster child. So, when I finally get a CAC done and it ain’t so great I will know what to do.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


(Doug) #11

Great post, Kenneth. :sunglasses:


(Patricia Martinson) #12

Kenneth, I see that Ivor Cummins recommends Vitamin K2, potassium, Magnesium, Vitamin D, but what are the doses he suggests that could be helpful in lowering a calcium score? And are those supplements the only ones he recommends?
(My calcium score is 57, but my doctor tells me that level of disease requires a statin, so I am anxious to try to lower it.)
Thank you.


(Bacon is the new bacon) #13

The K2 and the D will help get the calcium back into the bone where it belongs, and the potassium and magnesium will help keep it in balance. The key is to keep your salt intake in the proper range (10-15 g/day, including salt already present in food), so that your body can keep all thosse minerals in proper balance.


#14

I read a lot of mentions in the forum to K2.
There are a number of different K2s…8 I think. So people need to ensure they are taking an effective one for the purpose they intend it. The K2 from green leafy vegetables won’t get the calcium into your bones (afaik).
The only Ks that direct calcium into bones are K2m4 and K2m7 and some sunshine on bare skin is a better way to get Vitamin d if it is possible.

I don’t have rheumatoid arthritis but I do have serum negative arthritis.
My cardiac calcium is zero and was way before I started taking K2m7. I defended myself from an overactive GP who was pursuing my cholesterol levels trying to get me onto a statin when it was against my best interests as far as I could tell from my own research. My approach was to get my cardiac calcium done, showing the all clear…then research and locate a cardiologist who was speaking out against statins publicly (in the 90s). I take the K2m7 personally because I have osteo-arthritis… which dumps calcium in joints. My mother had it very badly and she also developed vascular dementia, so I take it as a preventative.

I don’t take a calcium supplement for this reason.
I do chew on the occasional organic chicken bone.
My own belief is that there is a hereditary component to the cardiac calcium predisposition which has been seriously aggravated by the focus for a few decades on a low fat diet which everyone here knows has been massively destructive.

I am telling my friends who are attempting to get their husbands off statins that if they have already had a heart attack those are the people who do need to be on them and they need to replace CoQ10 because statins deplete them.

The dear cardiologist who sorted out my then GP told me the cholesterol scores were meaningless numbers with my profile and no history of cardio problems in my immediate family.

If I had a heart attack, I would run to get a statin… otherwise I run constantly (people keep trying to prescribe them for me cause I am over 60) away.