Stalling... Gaining... AKA UnF*ck My Keto

(fe15add4a97ac32a095d) #1

I’m so upset and ashamed and bewildered that I’m posting this anonymously.

I have been keto for a year. I was calorie restricting a lot at first due to info I found on reddit. I did 1200 or fewer kcal per day for awhile then increased to about 1300 kcal when I didn’t feel great. I did, however, lose weight.

Then I found 2ketodudes podcast and I decided to stop with the severe calorie restriction and let myself eat. However, I have not lost any weight since I made that decision seven months ago. I have actually gained a bit. This would be okay if I was losing inches, but I’m not. I’ve gone up slightly in all my measurements except my belly button measurement which has stayed the same but possibly decreased by 1/2 an inch.

I’m totally at a loss. I understand the science, but I’m not a keto unicorn. I don’t “forget to eat.” I can’t easily fast. I haven’t suddenly had my body become some perfect machine with tons of energy. I can’t focus on something with amazing clarity for hours. I don’t suddenly see carb foods and go “Ew!” I want to eat them all! So much! I took a bite of a krispy kreme a month ago and it was AMAZING. I hated Krispy Kreme before keto! WTF!

I’ve done two 48 hour fasts with feasting on the days around them. Didn’t lose any weight or inches. I was hungry and cranky the whole time I was fasting.

Please don’t say something like “maybe you’re intolerant to dairy!” because how could that keep me from being fat adapted/ losing weight for seven months?

I’m really down and angry at myself for this. I have a lot of weight to lose, so it’s not like I’m a skinny person who can’t lose the last 5 pounds. If I lost 100 pounds, I’d be at a reasonable weight for my height.

I have family members who I got on keto soon after I started and they’ve surpassed me by so much. I’m happy for them, but it hurts to see their amazing successes and wonder what’s wrong with me. It has come so easily to them while I struggle so much.

I’m the pitiful keto disappointment now when we’re together. My fatness so much more emphasized now that they are losing theirs.

I just don’t know anymore. I don’t want to be morbidly obese forever. I wish I had someone to do this for me, you know? Someone to cook the right food for me or restrict at the right moment. I’m disappointed and lost.

(James storie) #2

It sounds like you have done a lot of damage to your body/metabolism. Probably most of your life. I did too. I spent most of my life overweight or obese, fighting it most of the time with whatever diet or exercise was supposed to work at the time. I also have a tyroid condition that makes it nearly impossible to have any effect on my metabolism. Keto is the only thing that has worked for me, but it takes time for your body to heal. I’ve gone through some lengthy stalls, but I keep going. You can do this, it just may take a little more time than you like to get things going. I take it you’re still hungry a lot? Eat more fat. Don’t try and fast right now. Just keep your TOTAL carbs under 20 grams, keep your protein where it needs to be for your body (1-1.5 grams per kg of lean mass), and eat fat until you are FULL. when you get hungry again, eat some more. Fasting is a tool to be used later. Your body will let you know when.

#3

I feel so much empathy reading your post, we are a lot alike. I had a 4 month stall at one point and then discovered I really did have a bit of carb creep (that I swore wasn’t possible.) Make sure to keep your carbs under 20g TOTAL/day. Just focus on that for a month. No need to track your macros just count your total carbs. Calorie restriction does a job on the body and can take a while to heal. I know, it blows. Make sure to get your sleep and relax your mind and body (magnesium is great for this.) You’ll make it through this! KCKO.

Also, try not to compare yourself to others, every body is different, hormones are different in everyone. I’m not sure if you are female but that adds a whole other level to losing.

(Dustin Cade) #4

My lady is in the same boat… She keeps ketoing on, though I know she is unhappy I’m losing weight and can fast for 72 hours no problem (I’m shocked)… I just know it will work out for her… She is so on it, tracks everything, even cut dairy for a while and saw no results… I’m hoping this will all start to click and she’ll catch up with me…

(Kirk Evans) #5

I know what works for me and I’ve seen what has worked for close friends… and what hasn’t. Despite the keto evangelists claiming otherwise, the keys are still eat less, move more, drink more water.

Calories matter. Increasing fat causes you to not be hungry, hence you eat less. The trick is only eating when you are really hungry (and stopping when you are no longer hungry). Eating less means less calories. Eating single-ingredient foods fewer times per day naturally means reduced calories. I was nearly zero carb and living off eggs cooked in butter and bacon that was swimming in grease. It made me feel nauseous and I wasn’t hungry, hence I was struggling to get 1200 calories per day and losing weight. Friends who were at 2500 calories per day or more weren’t losing weight. The human body will not get fatter unless you are giving it the materials to do so.

Exercise is key to continued weight loss. When I exercise, I drop 2-3 pounds per week, sometimes more. I injured my arm and haven’t been to the gym in a few weeks… weight loss has stalled. Friends who are doing resistance training (lifting weights) or running are seeing far greater results than those who aren’t. Increase muscle, increase circulation, weight loss occurs. You can lose weight just via diet, but you’ll lose a lot more weight if you exercise.

The notion that becoming keto adapted means you won’t crave carbs still doesn’t make sense to me. I crave the hell out of carbs. My family eats all kinds of awesome stuff and I don’t. I get fixated almost daily on something I can’t eat. I go grocery shopping and the whole place is filled with stuff I can’t eat, stuff I’ve never craved before but now I want more than anything I can imagine. I’ve decided that I am stronger than my cravings. Drink water, go for a walk, get away from food and you can get past it. This is incredibly satisfying to me.

I am an outright jerk when I am fasting, and I don’t believe anyone who claims they are rainbows and sunshine when they are fasting. I try not to do it very often because my family would hate me. I don’t do it because I find it pleasurable, I do it because weight loss is stalled. This is part of the mind over matter philosophy, and I find it satisfying afterwards to know that I completed a 48 hour fast, but hate it while I am doing it. I can’t decide “tomorrow, I’ll fast”, else it will be ten times worse. If I can get past breakfast and I’m not trying to eat the wallpaper off the walls, I’ll decide to try to go another few hours. If I can get past dinner, I’ll decide to make it to breakfast. There are definitely points in the day when I have to exert a ridiculous amount of mental strength to make it to the next meal. If it gets too bad, screw it… eat something. See if you can eat just a small amount instead of gorging.

When you are hungry, drink water. A huge freaking glass of water. Still hungry? Drink another one. Make your stomach so full of water that you can’t focus on anything except that you are uncomfortably full of water.

Finally, accept or ignore everything I said and what your friends say, too. That’s the beauty of it… you have to find what works for you. If you aren’t seeing results, think it through and change something. Keto is part of the equation, but I find the most success when I include the sucky parts of losing weight: eat less, move more, drink more water.

#6

When you were successfully losing weight 7 months ago while counting calories, what deficit did the 1250 represent? If you don’t want to count calories again, perhaps there would still be a way to find a middle ground where you maybe are modifying your portion sizes a little bit? 7 months seems like a long time to carry on without making any progress, even accounting for giving one’s metabolism and hormones time to adjust to a new WOE.

(Jim) #7

F doesn’t say what sleep or stress is going on. When I hurt my back and couldnt move I lost 25 lb on keto then after 6 months back at work I’ve only lost 5 more lbs, the stress and screwed up sleep and cortisol as well as my blood sugar are keeping “me” from losing.

#8

This is an indication that you do not have adequate access to your body fat to support the fast. Perhaps you are already lean? Those of us with more fat can access it at a higher rate to create the glucose and ketones needed for a happier experience. In fact, I’m at 3.5 days now and just fine. I did have a little fat supplement last night. Also, the first day or two is the hardest. The rainbows and sunshine don’t come out until you get past that. It gets easier the more you do it.

[note: Since the original poster stated that they are morbidly obese, I doubt that is his/her problem]

If you kick me out of ketosis with some carbs though, I become a raging bitch.

#9

Do you have the support of a doctor to do some standard lab tests? It would be good to know if you have proper thyroid function, what your insulin levels are etc. Are you able to test your glucose and ketones at home? This might help diagnose why you are having difficulties.

(Meeping up the Science!) #10

There is no greater pain than being obese and unsuccessful at weight loss when surrounded by others.

The truth is that obesity may be caused by hormonal dysregulation, but it’s behavior that typically drives the food choices that lead to obesity. This is just a fancy way of saying it’s not your fault.

I am obese, not because I am intolerant to dairy, but because I over-consumed highly palatable and addictive foods for many reasons. I have disordered eating I must keep an eye on. I will feel constant sugar cravings on keto when I am stressed.

That’s the key there - stress. Whenever I am emotionally drained or stressed, I will instinctively be drawn to carbohydrate. I will always overeat.

I mention all these because you are talking about eating what you know is not keto - krispy kreme donuts, for instance. I would be willing to bet that you are eating more food than you think, which is high carb. We will gain weight whenever we eat high fat/high carb foods, because as morbidly obese, we are primed to gain weight with that combination, even if it is intermittent.

Don’t be discouraged. It’s not about calories, carbs, or macros only, though. Don’t be disheartened by this. Retrace your steps going backward, and examine the behavior and patterns, and you will know exactly what is going on.

(Meeping up the Science!) #11

There’s a big difference between being 50 pounds overweight an 100+ pounds overweight. The former see more benefits from exercise. The latter often sustain worse injuries without plans for fitness. Even with plans, many times people 100 pounds overweight will get stress fractures. It’s not really as simple as it sounds.

In my case, I’ve lost 459 pounds without significant exercise. I continue to lose weight. I’d argue diet is closer to 95% of the equation. Bariatric patients have also gone from 250, 300, 400+ pounds to being 120 pounds with minimal exercise, frequently. This has made me want to exercise, and I do (an hour minimum a day now) because I enjoy it, but to be sure, the weight loss came first.

Don’t get me wrong - exercise is fabulous for the body, particularly the brain, and can help reinforce good health. It also makes us more mindful of our food choices. However, it’s a very difficult thing to do when morbidly or super morbidly obese, and it requires help from a trainer versed with morbid obesity to avoid a lot of permanent joint and structural damage.

(Siobhan) #12

OP, I am so sorry to hear you are struggling, I can understand why would you be frustrated, especially around other people who aren’t having the same difficulties. First off, there is no reason to be ashamed, you haven’t done anything that warrants that, no one is judging you here and we all want you to succeed.

I agree that after 7 months and no results, you may want to get a thyroid panel to see if there is an underlying issue going on, as well as fasting insulin.
You always want to make sure you’re not being held up by something like that.

Beyond that, is it possible that you’re not experiencing carb creep? Could you tell us what you tend to eat?
My baseline recommendations tend to be: <20g of carbs per day, .5-1.5g of protein/kg of lean body mass (fat subtracted), eat fat to satiety

Are you doing that? Are you eating any processed foods that could contain maltodextrin or other problematic sugar alcohols? Any cheat days? Are you snacking? Snacking inbetween meals can make it hard for insulin to lower enough to burn fat.

If you could let us know what you’re doing now, we could compare to what we’ve had issues with personally and try and troubleshoot.
At least until you can get some tests done if you intend to.

(Teresa Driver) #13

I just started losing after six months of steady weight gain. I lost 50 lbs in 2016 on keto, then stalled out over the winter, then just started to pack it right back on. Keep calm be damned. Keto on, grudgingly. I spent the entire first four months of the year getting heavier until I had passed my starting weight in 2016, also sick as a dog from sinus infections and depressed as hell because my family life was sucking big time. Things I learned:

  1. That stress thing causing weight even when you don’t eat. Totally a factor for me. Stress raises my blood sugar and that spikes my insulin. Weight pours on and hunger increases.

  2. My thyroid doesn’t work without enough progesterone. Been on natural thyroid for 2 years and it stopped working. Gyno finally prescribed bio-identical micronized progesterone because I’m 46 and peri-menopausal and within 48 hours I was mentally clear and functional- with a reduction in tension and an increase in adrenal function I’m sure. 72 hours on it and I was back in ketosis. 7 days on and I have lost 12 lbs.

  3. Sadness discovered this weekend: Aspartame causes a huge drop in my blood sugar. Insulin response, HO!!! Detoxing from aspartame is worse than quitting smoking. I’m having the shakes and the sweats and panic attacks. It’s like the damned DT’s over here.

TL;DR if you’re female, ask to have a full thyroid profile pulled including a TPO to check for autoimmune thyroid. If thyroid is good, have them check your female hormone profile next, but have them pull it in the 3rd week of your menstrual cycle to check for estrogen dominance. My estrogen was too high for the level of progesterone, and estrogen works like insulin to pack on body fat. Keto on, but feel free to lose your shit from time to time <3

#14

I’d also like to add some more about eating to satiety. While it’s true you don’t need to add more fat just to meet a macro or a calorie goal, there’s more to satiety for some people than others. so…

Let’s talk about satiety.

Why do I feel less hungry on keto? The quick response is that fat is more satiating than carbs, and protein even more than fat. Replace the carbs with fat and the cravings get better. But this is a rather superficial look at an incredibly complex system.

The second answer, that most of us have heard, is that lowering insulin allows access to trapped body fat. Your body wants to use these stores, like a squirrel looking for those nuts he stored away last fall, but elevated insulin from carbs and/or protein is blocking the supply. No nuts for you!

So protein is the enemy? Or should I be eating more of it to quench my hunger even more? Well, maybe. It depends. For an insulin sensitive (IS) person, adding some protein can increase satiety before they see insulin levels increase to the point of obstructing access to body fat stores. For an insulin resistant (IR) person, the level of insulin response to protein will determine at what point it becomes counter-productive. This is why you’re going to have start with an initial level and refine it over time.

So, do you know what your fasting insulin or insulin response curve looks like? Does your doctor look at you funny when you request tests for this? If you know you are diabetic, pre-diabetic, have metabolic syndrome, or a family history of these, and/or obesity, there’s a very good chance you are IR. [Crofts analysis of Kraft’s data] Being thin does not exclude you from the possibility you have IR. [2KD TOFI podcast 54] There is no currently affordable way to test insulin at home. One possible at-home proxy for insulin levels is the glucose-ketone index (GKI) or ratio. This has a rough correlation to insulin levels. Fasting without carbs or protein will increase GKI because insulin takes a nosedive and ketones skyrocket.

But what if I’m still hungry, even on keto? Satiety and fat storage is not just about having access to body fat. It’s also a system of gut hormones (incretins) and how they interact with your other hormones and brain. Doc Nally talks about this in a Keto Talk #45 podcast at ~34 min.

If you want some science on this, here a study that gives you an example of how complex it is:

“GLP-1Rs change their cellular localization according to feeding status rather than their protein concentrations. It is possible that several gut peptides are involved in mediating GLP-1R translocation. The mechanism of peripheral GLP-1R translocation still needs to be elucidated. We review data supporting the role of peripheral GLP-1 acting on VANs in influencing glucose homeostasis and feeding behavior. We highlight evidence demonstrating that GLP-1 interacts with ghrelin and leptin to induce satiation.” http://jn.nutrition.org/content/145/4/672.full

(KetoCowboy) #15

Very well said. I exercise every day now (even though I swore I wouldn’t) because I see the health benefits. But it’s only easy & enjoyable because I already lost my excess weight. Perhaps more importantly, I think any weight loss plan that DEPENDS upon exercise for success is bound to fail eventually because of external factors (schedule crunch, injury, etc.).

#16

Hey OP, mostly I just want to give you a hug. I’m sorry you’re frustrated (of course you’re frustrated), and hate to see you feeling ashamed…
I don’t have the experience with keto to add anything to the advice you’ve already gotten, but I would say a few things

  1. movement is so important - obviously not exercise that could lead to injury, and please not with an attitude of trying to beat yourself into shape - but some kind of really regular movement practice can be amazing. It’s not generally THE key to weightloss, and I wouldn’t do it just hoping to see lower numbers on the scale, but it’s so central to good health and well being. When you figure out whatever’s happening with your food (or when your stall breaks) you’ll be happy for the fitness that you’re building, for the shape it gives you, and for the feeling strength and ease in your body;
  2. everything everyone said above about stress is true (it really matters!)
  3. you don’t want to hear that dairy might be a problem, but moving away from the whole question of calories: for those folks who have a reaction to dairy, it can put a real stop to the healing necessary for weight loss. It seems worth a try to go a few weeks without it and see how you feel.

And a few more hugs…

#17

First of all, I think it is incredibly brave of you to post your frustrations and struggles here, anonymous or not.
Second: You must have willpower and determination of steel. What an achievement to still stay with keto and fight on for so long, seeing so little results. You’re awesome!!
I think this is a great thread and it’s so wonderful to see all those clever and kind people gather around to help. I really hope @fe15add4a97ac32a095d finds the help and answers to figure this out. You deserve it!

(fe15add4a97ac32a095d) #18

Hey all, thanks for the replies. I’m still struggling & still trying to figure out what to do next. Carb creep is a real problem for me as are diet sodas & sweeteners.

KCKO :-/

I think a thyroid test is a good, not very invasive option.

#19

Just wondering if you are on any medications that may list weight gain as a side effect?

(fe15add4a97ac32a095d) #20

I’ve taken anti-depressants since before keto and I also have an arm birth control implant - nexplanon