Sous Vide, Plastic and Estrogenic Activity

(carl) #41

Certainly. I’ve talked to Richard Campbell about it, who has done some research. He seems to think the combination of modern plastic and low temperatures don’t warrant avoiding sous vide. But, I haven’t asked him for his sources…

(Meeping up the Science!) #42

It’s actually a question I asked myself about sous vide several years ago when the Eades’ machine came out.

Regarding sous vide: I think the frequency most engage in sous vide minimizes the risk. Far fewer people use it than, say, microwave things in plastic wrap. The latter definitely does accumulate. Flame retardants are absolutely horrible for child development. So are many other things. Teratogens (chemicals that cause in vivo mutation) are everywhere.

In many cases we don’t have answers at what level of exposure there is danger. To do studies with humans is unethical, and animal models aren’t always reflective of accuracy.

I’m less concerned about sous vide because of the lower temperature and different bag material. I don’t eat out often (many restaurants including Chipotle use it) and I rarely do at home. For me the risk is low.

It’s always good to ask questions as consumers.

(Guardian of the bacon) #43

There is no possible way in this modern age of plastics and technology to avoid every conceivable risk. Some risks are major, others are minor, some are obvious, others are hypothetical, some are well documented, others we barely hear about.

Life is too short to worry about stuff I really can’t control. Our entire food chain is in constant contact with various plastics at various temperatures. I certainly don’t care to tell anybody else how they should care for themselves. For me, Sous Vide is an excellent way to prepare food. I’m not going to worry about the rare, vague chance it may cause me some harm in some far distant future that I may die from a car wreck, train crash, heart attack, or any of a multitude of other causes long before any perceived harm form sous vide bags rears it’s ugly head.

As long as you’re being cautious make sure you don’t char your meat on the grill, don’t enjoy smoked meat, don’t use salt, don’t eat saturated fat, don’t eat eggs, eat lots of margarine, eat loads of whole wheat products, because at one time or another these have all been deemed to be harmful or good for you by the powers that be.

(carl) #44

Another thing to consider. Frying and grilling creates carcinogens that we know are harmful. Sous vide renders none of that.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #45

Until or unless you sear, of course. :wink:

(Guardian of the bacon) #46

The flavor rewards outweigh the risk factor in my book!

(Bart) #48

I am from California and everything here causes cancer. There seems to be a label on everything reminding me of that. Heck, the Sun is both trying to kill me and keep me alive at the same time. I am pretty sure here is California the moon is causing cancer too.

The way I look at is that since everything else is trying it’s damnedest to give me cancer I am going to just roll the dice and enjoy my perfectly cooked ribeye and not worry about the potential BPA issues with my sous vide.

That is just my feelings on the topic.

(David K) #49

I think it was Robb Wolf who said there is a level at which people are willing to buy in and beyond that they aren’t going to buy anything.

From Paleoworld:

No grains, legumes or dairy? I can do that.
I have to eat all of my meat boiled in distilled water? Piss right off.

(Sergey Fox) #50

Red meat causes cancer too.
In my house the water pipes are plastic of some sort. Water bottles are mostly plastic. Even the water filter is plastic!
Most things others have mentioned already. You have to balance the risk vs reward. Eating out in public has its benefit - you just don’t know how they cooked your food. Yes, limiting plastic is a smart decision, but unless there is an alternative - I will cook my occasional sous vide in next best thing (glass or BPA free vac bags).
Air pollution is more likely to cause cancer to people living in big cities than extra EA that may have leached from the sous vide cooking

(G. Andrew Duthie) #51

Would be more accurate to say that it has been reported to. And the studies on which those reports are based show nothing more than an association, because the construction of the study is not sufficient to establish a causal relationship.

#52

Relevant study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/

"Abstract
Background: Chemicals having estrogenic activity (EA) reportedly cause many adverse health effects, especially at low (picomolar to nanomolar) doses in fetal and juvenile mammals.

Objectives: We sought to determine whether commercially available plastic resins and products, including baby bottles and other products advertised as bisphenol A (BPA) free, release chemicals having EA.

Methods: We used a roboticized MCF-7 cell proliferation assay, which is very sensitive, accurate, and repeatable, to quantify the EA of chemicals leached into saline or ethanol extracts of many types of commercially available plastic materials, some exposed to common-use stresses (microwaving, ultraviolet radiation, and/or autoclaving).

Results: Almost all commercially available plastic products we sampled—independent of the type of resin, product, or retail source—leached chemicals having reliably detectable EA, including those advertised as BPA free. In some cases, BPA-free products released chemicals having more EA than did BPA-containing products.

(Carpe salata!) #53

I’m hanging onto the thought that sous vide is a more gentle environment than microwave, UV radiation or autoclave (a glorified pressure cooker).

(Jack Brien) #54

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#55

@Jack_Brien
Are you thinking that BPA-free means it’s fine? See above - that’s not the case.

(Jack Brien) #56

No, just showing that sous vide can be BPA free. Estrogens seem to be everywhere and, for myself, unavoidable, do I stick to improving as much as possible while not becoming a hermit. It does involve burying my head in the sand a bit, but I can only cope with so much.

#57

Right- I’m saying that BPA-free doesn’t mean much. From a post above, quoting a study on plastics:

Results: Almost all commercially available plastic products we sampled—independent of the type of resin, product, or retail source—leached chemicals having reliably detectable EA, including those advertised as BPA free. In some cases, BPA-free products released chemicals having more EA than did BPA-containing products.

Yes, you’d be in good company! Personally I just don’t want to add more estrogenic compounds if I can help it (in particular because there are so many times that I can’t control) but there are several threads on here about sous vide and I think most folks feel that the risk is negligible and/or worth it.

(jketoscribe) #58

Chris Kresser recently revisited the issue: https://chriskresser.com/re-examining-the-evidence-on-bpa-and-plastics/ The studies underlying his statements are cited.

Yes, it’s true we cannot avoid ALL toxins in the environment, but to me that is all the more reason we should avoid those we can.