Some Answers To The "why Am I Not Losing Weight" Questions- Great article from Ketogains


(Deb) #1

Iran across this late, and I am so tired but with all the back and forth on this subject recently, and some of the frustration, I thought this was very interesting. I will also post some other things tomorrow but I thought this was important and couldn’t wait:


(I hope the link works- I dropped my computer last night and my USB ports no longer work ie: no mouse!And new Dell won’t be here til next week! So I had to type it in manually instead of cut & paste!)

Anyway, enjoy!
Skinnyjeans


(Tom Seest) #2

The link works fine. Why is this link important?


(Ernest) #3

Eating more protein will just spike your blood glucose. I’m talking from experience.
But here’s where self experimentation comes into play.
Protein does cause insulin secretion, the very situation we are trying to keep to a minimum.
while eating protein alone may sound like a great idea, you’ll probably be hungry constantly.
More frequent meals means more insulin running around, that’s impeding fat mobilization.
I’d rather implement intermittent fasting than cutting out dietary fat.
I do agree with cutting back on dietary fat.


(Deb) #4

I thought it was important for all the people who post about why they are in ketosis and not losing weight. Or gaining weight. And it seems to be a common frustration.

I personally don’t eat that much protein, because of the insulin spike, but I DID lower my fat intake, and am doing a version of a PSMF, complimenting it with daily IF of 16:8 or better, and am almost to goal. I have complete control over my weight loss for the first time in 55 years, and I’d like to see others have that same incredible feeling.

Just trying to help others. That’s all.


#5

re: results, not ketones

Unless, of course, it’s the ketones that make you feel like a human again after suffering from mood disorders and/or brain fog, which so many of us have experienced. I remember after I finally got my ketones above about 1.0, my whole brain started working again like I’d gone back in time to a younger, healthier self.

I don’t think I’m alone in this observation. Since T2D, IR and Alzheimer’s disease are all part of the same problem, it only makes sense that mental clarity is a fantastic “side effect” of slightly elevated ketone levels for those with impaired glucose metabolism. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/


#6

Actually protein is the most satiating macro to the point of being nauseating when eaten in excess [for good reason, you can only clear so much ammonia from your blood in a given time, and an impaired liver will lower the amount you can handle]. And it doesn’t necessarily spike glucose, but the insulin spike will cause ketones to go down and the demand for glucose to go up. http://blog.2keto.com/steak-cake/


(Cathrine Helle) #7

I think I would rather be in a caloric deficit by increasing my BMR (basal metabolic rate), than decreasing the caloric intake. I’m personally done trying to eat less than I’d like in a meal (leaving the table unsatiated), or feeling guilty when I do eat to satiety. My BMR took a hit when I had reached goal weight in 2011/12, and I do not want to end up there again. Restricting calories would get me there for sure. I do not claim to know the best ways to reach weight goals, and certainly not maintenance goals, but I am convinced that the low calorie path is not one I wish to follow.


(Allie) #8

I’m not keen on ketogains way of doing things at all. Wouldn’t work for me, even though I regularly lift weights and am working on muscle growth.


(Ernest) #9

This just proves that it all comes down to every individual finding there own sweet spot.


(Adam Kirby) #10

More protein might work better for people who don’t have much too lose, not sure. Protein seems to spike some peoples blood sugar and not others. IOW a thing for people to experiment with and see if it works.


(jilliangordona) #11

Thank you for sharing this. There will be mixed results on this forum, as started earlier, because there are a plethora of reasons as to why people are participating in a keto WOE, whether its mental health, T2D, weight loss, fertility, PCOS.

Those who feel as though they are in a good spot and struggling with losing weight (including myself, I have quite a few more inches to go until I feel as tho I am at a healthy spot) could possibly benefit from this, but it really depends. I am going to try to readjust my macros based on calculating how much fat my body gets from fasting and go from there. I know I am guilty of over indulging in fat… but I also think it is really hard to find the line between hitting your goals and feeding your body. This is probably still a lifetime of incorrect information about losing weight coming back to bite me.

Anyway… thanks for sharing.


(Richard Morris) #12

The author makes 4 fundamental errors.

An error in the biochemistry, an error of terminology, a classic logic error, and a prejudice.

#Biochemistry - Insulin’s first job

The error of biochemistry is the assumption that all people have equal and adequate access to energy from body fat. People who make this mistake understand instinctively that a person with less body fat has to eat more fat, and therefore they reason that it must follow that a person with a lot of body fat just has to eat less fat - and by extension if they don’t lose weight then they must keep restricting dietary fat more and more until they lose weight. It’s a simplistic motto - fat is your lever. It’s also wrong for more than half the population, and an oversimplification that obscures the mechanism for the remainder.

The mistake is to not understand that the primary role of insulin is to inhibit the release of free fatty acids (Energy) from adipose tissue (Fat cells). When insulin goes up, the energy coming from your body fat goes down - when Insulin goes down, energy coming from your body fat goes up.

Some people can’t get insulin down low enough no matter what they eat - so when they pull that fat lever their metabolism slows to a crawl and they recruit energy from alternate sources - ie: burning lean mass for energy.

The other mistake is the assumption that only dietary carbohydrates raise insulin, and if you restrict carbohydrates that insulin must go low enough for the inhibition of lipolysis to come off. But the fact is that not everyone has a fasted insulin below the level of inhibition of fat cells releasing their cargo.

Also not everyone releases adequate first phase insulin, and often ends up with second phase insulin release that lasts for 6 hours after a meal, instead of the 2-3 it should. So for these people multiple small meals is a dumb idea, and more protein than is required for lean tissue maintenance is a dumb idea.

Every type 2 diabetic, even those with ideal glycostasis has likely battled with this. If you are young enough and have caught type 2 diabetes early enough you might after a few years of good glucose be able to lower your insulin sufficiently. If you have been diabetic longer it could take a decade of keeping calm and keto’ing on to totally recycle your adipose tissue and, for some it may never happen.

#Terminology - Ad Libitum
The problem with terminology is a misunderstanding of the term Ad libitum. A well formulated ketogenic diet is, and has always been an “Ad Libitum” diet which is a Latin term that means “without restraint.”. This diet limits carbs and protein to their functional minimums while getting essential nutrition, and gets energy from fat without restraint. Ad libitum means that you let hunger and satiation determine adequate fuel intake - so your body determines if it will get energy from body fat, or it will make you hungrier so you add fat to your plate.

Before adapting your hunger/satiation signals may have you eating a lot of fat which will ramp up the pathways of metabolism for fat, once adapted you spontaneously decrease your intake of fat when you have access to body fat, and when you no longer do you spontaneously increase the amount of dietary fat. That is what the term Ad Libitum means. If you are doing a well formulated ketogenic properly you can not by definition over eat fat - because you stop when full, and only eat again when hungry.

I’m pretty sure that the diet that group promotes is not a well formulated ketogenic diet, and they have cherry picked the elements they like from Drs Phinney and Volek and pretended the remainder don’t exist. Perhaps that diet should be called the “Fat lever formulated” ketogenic diet instead of the Well formulated ketogenic diet.

#We’re all the same snowflake

The logic error is the one that almost every dieter, who hangs out their shingle as a coach, falls into. The assumption that what worked for them must therefore work for everyone.

The natural corollary of this is that people who don’t see the same results must have something wrong with them; not enough discipline, laziness, gluttony, sloth. It’s natural for human beings with egos to fall into that trap, and healthy for them to be called out on it.

Y’know I’ll bet the average fasted insulin for people who are able to get the “fat lever” formulation to work is under 13 mIU/L.

#Strawmen as far as the eye can see

This leads into the final error; Prejudice, the assumption that a great mass of potential clients out there that that need coaching are doing it wrong, chugging butter, chasing ketones, eating too much fat, not eating enough protein, doing too much cardio and not enough weight bearing exercise.

The reality is most people doing a ketogenic diet don’t know their ketones, and from the remainder who do - most lose interest when they are over 0.5 mmol/l. Personally I suspect the only useful diagnostic level of ketones is > 0. Sure there are people who compete to get the highest ketone reading, there are also people who compete to dead lift the most weight - it doesn’t mean everyone lifting weights is.

Also most people don’t live on a high butter diet, or get their energy from mostly fat bombs. Almost no-one on a ketogenic diet is eating protein below 1g/kg LBM — and that is the HIGH outlier for nitrogen balance.

So all this hand wringing about low protein butter chugging ketone chasers is a strawman.

It’s evidently a commercial decision to peel potential new clients from other coaches, but I suspect that will turn out to be a 2 edged sword. Every time someone posts a meme about “fat bombs being already on your belly” or some straw man that “everyone in the butter keto groups thinks” or some parable about how a ketogenic diet should be a high protein and not a high fat one … tens of thousands of people who have successfully reversed metabolic disease or gained control over their appetite and body weight eating Ad Libitum fat as they pass by make a mental note to themselves “Y’know, screw that a$$hole”… and eventually everyone thinks it.

We don’t coach, we don’t care if people in this forum are coached elsewhere and have success meeting their goals … if “fat is a lever” works for you that is awesome.


(Ernest) #13

That pretty much sums it up. @richard


(Deb) #14

You said it, Ernest


(Jennifer) #15

@richard - you are awesome. What a great response.


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #16

My metabolically deranged twin.

I heart him.


(What The Fast?!) #17

Thanks @skinnyjeans13…I’ve seen this article as well. I know that @richard said: [quote=“richard, post:12, topic:14742”]
Y’know I’ll bet the average fasted insulin for people who are able to get the “fat lever” formulation to work is under 13 mIU/L.
[/quote]
and since my fasting insulin level is 2.2, I thought maybe I need to start following the “fat lever formulated” ketogenic diet…but based on all the over-feeding studies, I just don’t believe that calories are all they’re cracked up to be. I really go back and forth on this, because I haven’t lost any weight following the “ad libitum” method, but the KetoGains method is just IIFYM (If It Fits Your Macros) in different clothes. I’ve done IIFYM with no success.

In my case, I think there’s a bigger digestion issue going on that has been preventing weight loss regardless of how I eat, but I do wonder if that KetoGains method will work better for me, considering my low insulin levels, once I figure out my gut problems.

What I’m realizing now is that no one else’s results really matter. There have been successful people in both camps and I think the only way to figure out what works for you is to try it all until you get results.


(Deb) #18

And that’s exactly where I was, Andrea, and over the past few months, I must have tried ( over and over) several ways. I read, I surfed, I studied, I reread everything I read when I first started all this 2 years ago…and finally just whittled it all down to your last line. And finally figured it out…for me.


(Tom Seest) #19

EXACTLY…This is EXACTLY it…Just find what works. It may take some time, but you’ll find it.


(What The Fast?!) #20

Thanks Tom. I think a part of it, for me, is talking to a gastroenterologist…now wish me luck finding one that knows about keto. :slight_smile: