So I did an interesting protein experiment with Egg Whites vs Whey

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#21

Do you know where I can find a table showing relative insulinogenic effect of the different amino acids?

(Ross Daniel) #22

I imagine this also rules out the use of BCAAs. I had been toying with the idea of using them, but was weary, now I’m even more so.

However, I do use collagen hydrolasate, which contains a lot of amino acids as well. I only use about a tablespoon or so, so I’m not sure on the overall negative effects of it when it comes to ketosis.

(Scott Shillady) #23

Actually vegetarian rennet is now widely used. We use it in our operation as it opens the vegetarian market to us as well as seems to provide a more consistent curd for us

#24

How is the vegetarian rennet produced?

(Scott Shillady) #25

From Wikipedia

With genetic engineering it became possible to isolate rennet genes from animals and introduce them into certain bacteria, fungi, or yeasts to make them produce chymosin during fermentation. The genetically modified microorganism is killed after fermentation and chymosin isolated from the fermentation broth, so that the fermentation-produced chymosin (FPC) used by cheese producers does not contain a GMO or any GMO DNA. FPC is identical to chymosin made by an animal, but is produced in a more efficient way. FPC products have been on the market since 1990 and have been considered in the last 20 years the ideal milk-clotting enzyme

#26

Good grief…I prefer the rennet from the spleen of an animal than that Frankenstein monstrosity. :smirk:

#27

@Marty_Kendall is a font of wisdom concerning the insulin index.

#28

I tested the Great Lakes brand (green can) during a fast and got no glucose reaction from it. I would suggest testing blood ketones with it as well to be thorough.

(Ross Daniel) #29

thanks for the reply @carolT! I use great lakes specifically. I need to get a meter and test ketones. I just have not made the investment. I just fly keto blind basically.

(barrytspencer) #30

Most know ;o)

(Marcie Budden) #31

I noticed that the whey would react in the same way!

(Stephanie Hanson) #32

Did you just dissolve it in water and drink?

(Richard Morris) #33

Yep, blitzed it in a magic bullet with water and a tbs of melted butter and a pinch of salt (I had added the butter and salt to the egg whites the previous month)

#34

I did use plain water since I was conducting a glucose test. It tastes a little weird, so tea or coffee is better.

(Richard Morris) #35

As a follow up to this test, I did a control - fasted 4 days and then cycled for 60k then ate nothing while taking blood tests every 15 mins (roughly). I held off breaking my fast until 6 hours after the ride.

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I didn’t get any glucose tests while riding (unfortunately). But as soon as I stopped the ride you can see my glucose overshoot a little - probably because my red blood cells were no longer using it at a higher rate to deliver oxygen. I made a little more insulin in response to the higher glucose and my serum glucose remained slightly depressed for about 60m before it started to head back to my physiological norm (4.8-5.2). Also the low point was 4.4 mmol/l.

Contrast that to 25g of whey which caused me secrete enough insulin to clear glucose faster than I could release it for 6 hours. The nadir was 3.4 mmol/l.

And with 25g of egg white at about 3 hours my glucose started returning back to my physiological range. The nadir was 3.7 mmol/l.

As you can see when I set up my body to have a significant debt in it’s stored glucose (both muscle and liver), if I then eat protein I clear glucose into those sinks faster than I can release new glucose from my liver. Any insulin I make as a result of eating protein gets used immediately to replete muscle glycogen and shows up as a drop in blood glucose.

The other thing I think that we can say is that whey appears to cause me to release a significant amount of insulin for a much longer time.

That’s just in me. I’d be interested to see if someone who was more insulin sensitive saw a less severe glucose excursion (because they needed make less insulin less long).

#36

This is a wonderful discussion. I’ve been looking into the impact that Kefir has on my own diet. Even a half cup of kefir (6 grams carbs) has roughly 50 to 100 times more probiotics than any probiotic supplement in pill form. I concluded, for my own diet, that the kefir, although highly beneficial for gut health, was causing too large of an insulin response. Here are two research articles I found relevant as I did my explorations…

http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1381&context=etd

(Richard Morris) #37

Kefir uses whole milk, so unless you curdle it to seperate it into curds and whey, then I suspect you will be getting as much whey from a glass of kefir as you would from a glass of whole milk.

In theory you should be getting less milk sugars because some of those will have been fermented into lactic acid and alcohol by the kefir grains.

(Arlene) #38

I’ve made yogurt and creme freche. I would think kefir could easily be duplicated on your kitchen counter using a few tablespoons of kefir stirred into heavy cream. The end product should have the same good bacteria as regular kefir with much fewer carbs. Just a thought.

(Richard Morris) #39

Great idea

(Jason Fletcher) #41

You are making the assumption here that the stored glucose is depleted. IF you were keto adapted at this point for some time your glucose levels should be no lower then normal. Plus the only way to tap into the stores of glucose from exercise to deplete them at this point is to increase your VO2max. The steady state cardio would not go into using these reserves of glucose only a HIIT workout or heavy lifting would. You also think that by fasting all the glucose would be used it is not. Your body is now efficiently sparing glucose for the HIIT activities. The starting point glucose trends were different before you ingested the protein. After one workout they were going down and after another they were going up. The intensity of the workouts could have been different. I don’t know but if they were the same. It would make since to see a increase in glucose in the blood if your intensity was higher. From a higher vo2max and also increased adrenaline during the workout that would push the glucose into the blood for use. There are other factors that could affect adrenaline and glucose as well. Such as your song selection during a work. Whey does have a greater insulin response. But their are two factors to account for the rate of absorption and the amino acid profile. The other question that this brings up is the goal of eating protein? Lean tissue mass and strength. Gram for gram due to the amino acid profile Whey is a better choice and study’s do support this. Does the insulin response of whey negate these benefits? This i think depends on the person and goals. Eating to satiation is not a option when eating whey protein shakes.