Since when did we have to apologize for eating plants?

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(Bob M) #1

I see this type of post all the time now on Twitter, where anyone low carb/keto immediately apologized for eating plants:

And this is just an example. Every single post with someone eating plants who is low carb (not vegetarian) has a disclaimer like this.

I think this has to stop. If you’re carnivore, just avoid telling people not to eat plants. Just keep your opinion to yourself.

We have been eating plants since we’ve been a species. Even those groups supposedly eating all animals will eat some plants:

Six are the ingredients that go into a Maasai diet, where the cattle play a major role once again; they are: milk, meat, blood, fat, honey and the bark of some trees.

Favorite foods of the Inuit include beluga whale, seal, fish, crab, walrus, caribou, moose, duck, quail and geese. In the summer, they incorporate some roots and berries into their meals. Due to the harsh arctic climate, the Inuit eat mostly meat and fish. Plants are missing from their diet because they do not grow in such harsh conditions.

II have gotten called out for calling carnivores “slightly crazy”. What I showed you from Twitter is an example of this: We now have to apologize for eating plants, or we’ll get attacked by carnivores. Here’s an example from this board, where the woman had to apologize for eating an apple:

I am not saying carnivore is not useful. Nor am I saying that there are not people who have experienced tremendous benefits from a carnivorous diet. (Ha! double negatives!) I have dissed plants and advocated carnivore at times.

However, I’ve also said that one of the reasons I have not gone carnivore is because I don’t control my dinners (my wife usually makes the dinners), and I’ve been attacked for that. I mean, plants obviously are so bad that I NEED to eat nothing but meat, so why don’t I ignore my family situation and just eat all meat?

I should not have to apologize for eating plants. Neither should you.

I have no problem with carnivores saying they experienced a benefit going carnivore. I have no problem with people pointing out possible issues (eg, oxalates, lectins, anti-nutrients, etc.) with plants. I have an issue when they attack people and make them feel bad because they eat plants and won’t convert to or try carnivore (as I have been attacked). That’s why I’ve referred to carnivores multiple times as being “slightly crazy”. It’s become a religion instead of a way of eating.

(hottie turned hag) #2

:open_mouth:
henpecked much?

#3

Carnivores are obviously vegans in sheep’s clothing.

That doesn’t make sense.

I hear ya Bob. Cracker of a conversationstarter.

Bob, can’t we put it down to the exuberance of discovery?

Vegans love being vegan for their multitudinous reasons and a big swag of virtue signalling. But there are lovely vegans who just go along being nice and polite and just not eating animals nor animal products.*

Vocal carnivores are the Joker to the Vegan Batman. They have a quest to reclaim the Good of the world from the Vegan agenda and vegan future fake meat dystopia, But then there are lovely carnivores who don’t even wear a t-shirt proclaiming as such, “Lovely Carnivore” (patent pending, registered trademark), see, they didn’t even put an exclamation mark on the statement, and they just move along munching on stuff that isn’t plants.

So we can’t throw them all in a bucket and waggle a finger or a carrot at them. Can’t we just allow the loud rock’n’roll music excitement outbursts of the people getting a snuffter of what healthiness may be?
We were young once.

Crikey we’ve survived the Age of KetoEvangelists, and are watching that (our) empire crumble like ketocookies into entrepreneurship, keto-convenience and substitution, and heading toward the abuse of industrialised, processed fake-keto in the form of esters and salts.

The nouveauPaleo clambered over the 70’s Pritkin vegetarians, to be tumbled in turn by the tide of vegans and ketonians struggling at each others’ throats (or gullets), to be rolled over by the rising wave of carnivores. The everspeedspinning spiral of dietary revelation and revolution.

Plants will save the planet for people, only if we don’t eat too many of them. Let the cows do that.

I think that about covers it. Nothing like taking the mental steam engine out for a spin before anybody lays down the rails.

*says me

#4

Hens are small dinosaurs. Ouch. :chicken:

(bulkbiker) #5

Odd thing to say on a post telling others what to do?
Just a thought…

#6

I came back and edited because what I originally ended my comment with was a bit of a jab.
Seriously, though, you seem to seek out things to get offended about.
You seem to pop onto threads where you are apparently just looking for something to trigger you.

Like I’ve said before, just avoid the stuff you disagree with and quit trying to start fights. It’s ridiculous and frankly a bit childish.

#7

Spice is a condiment?

Bob is a forum hormetic?

And he just got off Twitter.

I think @ctviggen Bob has got an interesting discussion point.

The civil war amongst the nutritionally healthy is a fascinating topic.

I just listened to a podcast on emotional eating and the machinations of Big Food, the industrial food complex. They allegedly love this tribalism as it puts people off investigating and keeps them entrenched in the pseudo-safety of mainstream dietary advice.

(bulkbiker) #8

Also spectacularly missing the humorous tone of Christian Assad’s tweet…

(Jack Bennett) #9

Wishing people on Twitter (and/or other social media platforms) would behave otherwise is a perennial and universal desire.

#10

Probably also incurs an adrenaline and cortisol release. Isn’t social media the psychological lectin?

(Jack Bennett) #11

Peter Attia recently addresses this in his discussion of The Game Changers.

tl;dr version is that most vegans, keto-ers, vegetarians, low-carbers, etc are broadly healthier than SAD eaters (the default diet) and they are all arguing about the small details.

#12

I’m kind of a history geek so I chuckle (sadly) about this sometimes. It makes me think of when the Scot Clans couldn’t whip the English because they were so busy fighting each other all the time.
The different groups Carnivore, Keto, Paleo, and the health proponent Vegans are so busy throwing poop at each other even though we’re all seeking the same personal goals.
Note I didn’t include the “ethical” or “environmental” vegans in there, that’s a whole 'nother ball of wax.

I personally don’t care if you’re a vegan. Just don’t tell me to be one, I used to be, it was bad for me.
If paleo works for you, even better.
If keto is your thing, that is freakin’ awesome.
If carnivore is how you have to go, well, what I think a lot of people don’t get is that carnivore is the last stop on a train that a lot of people didn’t want to ride. It’s just what worked after everything else either failed or just failed to live up to expectations. So, like every other group, when a person finds a fix after years of searching then it may be natural to come off sounding triumphalist or holier-than-thou. I don’t agree with that attitude, but it does happen and the backlash a person gets for being that way will often make them more-so.
This triumphalist attitude is not a “carnivore” thing. Every single group has people who do this. Social media is full of them.

Can you imagine the change to the nutrition guidelines, government policy, and food production that could be brought about if we quit trying to beat each other and instead turned our attention to the real problem?

(Jack Bennett) #13

The big problem there is that they often use the health-based arguments (complete with exaggeration and misinformation) and don’t always disclose that their main goal is animal rights or environmental issues.

#14

Yeah, that’s the hook. I tried it out for that reason. Their arguments are loudest and often sound well researched and thought out.

(hottie turned hag) #15

I’ve noticed this too.

Bravo. Def a picking fight vibe from this poster IMO.

This scene (dreadful film, though) is apt:

#16

Absolutely.

#17

I think we established (in other threads) that the last stop on the train line might be Soylent Green.

#18

Luckily since you want censorship it can’t happen because this forum will support truths about individual plans and their guidelines and science they adopt. If this is very important to you and censorship is needed, start your own forum. Total control. It won’t happen here thankfully.

Yes old ancient civilizations would eat seasonally for true survival. That is normal. No kill on a hunt, you eat whatever plant would not hopefully to kill you for survival. I understand that as do all 100% carnivores. Luckily today we don’t have to be the ‘toxic plant guinea pigs’ that killed billions for survival purposes.

As you should. Nasty is nasty. Name calling is for children. A person who comes onto a ‘carnivore eating category only’ and expects answers that are not in accordance to what their beliefs and plan guidelines might get answers they don’t like. Why would this not be understood?

I can only say WOW on that and the person posting should not visit a ‘carnivore’ category solely for ‘100% carnivore eaters’ if they do not want to know the truth, science, belief, experiences of those doing that plan. Why walk into a plan you don’t experience ever and think you know 100% carnivore experiences? I don’t know on that? Again personal decision.

Stay in your own lane if you do not want 100% carnivore information as it is experienced thru long time on plan members and advice from true experience and results.

Nice thought. We carnivores thrive. We post how well we do and we ask for help in hard times walking into this way of life from Carns with experience and have lived thru those times… It is nice you have great words for our great benefits!

This is a very personal problem for you specifically and I won’t comment on it. This is a personal thing you must correct and it is on your plate. No one else can make any decisions or changes to your personal life but you. This seems like a very big problem you are handling from your post and I will not comment on it. All this is 100% on you and take action or ??

It has not except for in the minds of some who can not fathom that others are doing so well and want to sing the praise of a plan that gives them benefits one needs. It is highly personal. But I will never be censored from recommending someone on another plan not try to eliminate plants from their menu because they are having troubles.

How many Keto people and lc people and more eliminate some plants and find they do so much better? And that is in that community…not even Carnivores saying drop some veg. that your body could be allergic to or have ill results from eating? Keto people and lc plan people realize many veg. could effect them negatively.

No need to lay blame. See within yourself to find where you belong and leave other’s to enjoy what works for them. Your Carnivore bashing is tiring to me. But that is OK in that it is alright to vent how you feel and it is alright for me to respond as I feel.

The title…since when did we have to apologize for eating plants?

Obviously you don’t. Just a little respect for those who do not want veg. and let their way of voice have some merit here also.

(Todd Allen) #19

I think we should all avoid telling others what to eat. We are all different and need to experiment and find out what works best for ourselves. But I like hearing others opinions about what is working for themselves. And in general I find the carnivore conversations a breath of fresh air in the nutritional discussion that has been long biased towards plant centric diets. Mainstream dietary wisdom is to shun animal foods and I see the carnivore movement as part of the antidote.

From my own experimentation a vegan diet was disasterous although that was probably due to my misplaced fear of fat and lack of fear of sugar. Vegetarian was bad but if I had to I expect I could find a way to make it work. I expect it would be easier to do ok following a carnivorous diet. There are clearly some plant foods which cause me trouble such as most grains and pulses. I like leafy greens but in quantity they aggravate constipation and bloating. But beyond that for me the signal is weak. I don’t see much if any negative effects from most low sugar fruits such as cucumbers, squash, avocados, peppers and tomatoes, etc. I love coconut and it appears to love me back. I love most other nuts and have a tendency to over indulge but not so uncontrollable I feel a need to abstain.

(Jack Bennett) #20

My experience was similar. I felt like I was always hungry, never satiated. And I did try to include concentrated fat sources in the diet - mainly nuts.

I lost a bunch of weight, but I think too much of it was muscle, especially toward the end.

Knowing what I now know, if I had to do it over I would pay closer attention to protein - both quantity and quality. I also have some better recipes up my sleeve for salad dressings, but I’m not sure how they would perform without eggs.