Shift Work

[shrek]

Hi Guys, I am going to sound really dim now. I work a variable shift pattern, so my body clock is all over the place and my eating habits are all over the place.

Sofar on my keto adventure I have been told two things to loose weight. Firstly to eat when hungry and secondly to sleep for 8 hrs at the same time every day.

Now this is where I get a bit dim, eating when I am hungry, how does this work because I am a traditional man, who has always lived with, breakfast, lunch and supper. So if I get home at 3am in the morning do I have a snack or a meal and if so what size ect. Told you I am dim haha.

Also my sleep pattern is so variable that in the last month alone I haven’t had the same sleep time. Also on average I only have aprox 5hr of sleep at a time. What effects will this have on my keto diet.

For me I don’t have a problem with recopies or what to eat it is how to fit the keto diet into my lifestyle, if that makes sense.

Many thanks

Gerald

[EZB]

Irregular schedules are generally stressful and counterproductive, but many of us just have to deal with that! I don’t have a shift schedule myself, but I work a lot and don’t have a 24-hour internal clock (more like 30 hours). My advice is to stop thinking about meals as breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Eat your meals (whenever they are) as mostly fat and with moderate protein. If you are still hungry, eat more fat. If you are really struggling with the varying schedules, then schedule a time during each day that you eat, such as always eat between 2 pm and 8 pm, and don’t eat outside that window.

[matt]

How long have you been eating this way? The longer you have been Keto the longer you can go between meals. I was never a breakfast eater so that was a non-issue for me. I used to eat lunch at 1 and try to be done dinner by 8. I have recently tightened my eating window to 4pm-8pm. Since you are on shift work you are going to be eating at different times I assume but you can still go longer than “normal” times with no food once you are fat adapted.

For now I would say if you are hungry then eat. Just make sure you eat the right things and don’t snack just cause you feel like you should.

As far as sleep you could use more but you would have to determine if that is possible. Shift work is a PITA. I don’t miss it at all.

[cywgdave]

Do the best you can, with as many parts you can, given the circumstances you live and work in.
_
You can try all sorts of things, this is an experiment for all of us to see what works for us as indivuduals. If you always eat at certain times maybe start with just changing what you eat (no/low carbs, higher fat etc.) but eat at the same times you have been depending on what shifts you are working on that/those days. Then experiment with various things and see what happens. For those starting out the ability to miss meals can take some time to develop. For now, if you feel like eating at the time you normally would, then eat. Once you’ve been eating keto for a few weeks then try changing something else, try skipping that 3 am snack when you return from work and see how you feel. If it works for you, great, if not then try something else., Maybe don’t eat right after waking, (if that’s what you usually do), wait and see how it feels, if OK, great, if not, try something else.

It’s all an experiment. I work variable hours as well and getting those “ideal” 8 hours at the same time every day doesn’t work for me either. So I just do the best I can around it.

Cheers.

[wheeghee]

Welcome, Gerald! The only thing worse than (night) shift work is variable shift work, and the only thing worse than that is variable shift/on-call (with no guaranteed time to eat) which is typically what I do. It’s very doable! In fact, in my experience keto is the thing that makes this kind of schedule sustainable. And you’re not dim at all, it’s a really good question and one I’ve spent a good deal of time figuring out. I agree with the above, don’t think of it in terms of three meals a day, just eat when hungry, a full, fat loaded meal if at all possible to carry you as long as possible. The beautiful thing about this WOE is that I can go very long stretches without eating, while maintaining mental clarity and not having hypoglycemic meltdowns. When I do need to eat I can inhale fat laden food pretty darn quickly in the form of cheese and salami, that sort of thing, that requires no prep. The sleep thing just is what it is, some of us don’t get a regular or complete sleep pattern. Get as much as you can when you can. I’ve been off my crazy schedule for some months and it’s been glorious, but I’m going back to it in a few weeks and getting mentally prepared for it. I will say, I’m feeling much better about doing it Keto and then as a carb burner, that’s for sure.

[wheeghee]

Great advice! Start changing what you eat and see where it leads you in terms of timing.

[MmmBacon]

It’s not impossible, but it is challenging.

First of all I would encourage you to track your macros using the MyFitnessPal App on your smartphone. Aim for 75% Fat, 20% Protein and 5% Carbs (<20g per day). Use a macro calculator to help you figure out what that means for you. This is a guideline and as everyone is different, you may need to adjust macros up or down after a while if you’re not getting results.

Ensure that you have plenty of low-carb options to eat at all times, that will help when you get home at 3am you’ll have something available instead of a high-carb option. If nothing else, that can be as simple as bacon and eggs or cheese slice and salami “sandwiches”.

Now, to make your life easier in the long run, even though you are a traditional chap, after at least 6 weeks of successfully meeting your macros you should have become Fat Adapted and at that point you could consider starting fasting as it may fit with your unpredictable eating patterns much better. I was hesitant at first as I love my food, but I have been doing intermittent fasting since the middle of January and it has now become a very comfortable and intuitive thing for me to do, as many others on the forum have experienced. It’s by no means mandatory for the diet, but for many it does improve its effectiveness and create additional freedom from food. If that’s not for you, you’re free to keep eating low-carb options and you will still succeed, but just slower and with more complications to work around your shift patterns. You will be supported here with either way.

[Jason_v]

I’ve lost over 130 pounds now, doing shift work the entire time (and a large part of my life).

there is a contingent that suggests the keys to weight loss are circadian rhythms and gut microbiota health.

there is no doubt in my mind that major disturbances of either of things might set you up for failure on your weight loss journey but the suggestion they are PRIMARY in the battle of fat loss is patently ridiculous.

with shift work there will be circadian rhythm disturbances, but with a strict ketogenic diet and high intensity exercise (more diet than anything) you can surpass these slight challenges no problem.

keep calm and keto on

[shrek]

Good morning everyone I have just got in from work to find all the replies so I will read them all and respond after I have had a little sleep.

Thank you all

Gerald

[Tmdlkwd]

I just had this discussion w a Starbucks Barista
This individual was asking me about my eating lifestyle
And on how their schedule is so “ hard to eat on a crazy schedule “

What some of the others said above
I said. “Eat around a window or time of day “
I was more forgiving and said try from 12-8
Then go from there. Adjust, shorten or try it out

It’s a start!
That’s What matters and it’s YOUR WOE😄

[Dazzlarees]

Hi guys, first post here, signed up today. This topic is a good one because 99.9% of dietary advice out there never takes shift work into consideration! I agree with everyone, you have to forget normal eating habits and ‘rules’ (breakfast >snack >lunch >snack >dinner >snack) and try and listen to your body, only eating when you’re actually hungry. I work in the NHS and have to do 12hr days and 12hr nights - but not in any particular order, I usually get one 12hr day followed by a 12hr night each week, the rest are 9-5. This quite litterally sends my body all over the place. I use 16:8 intermittent fasting as a tool to regulate my hunger and I don’t deviate even when on shift.

If I am on night shift I eat my last meal around 8pm before going in and then I 100% fast through the night, only drinking water and a black coffee if I feel I need it. I used to take snacks with me in case I couldn’t ‘make it’ but now I know I won’t feel hungry so I don’t bother taking anything in. I feel so much better the next day after my post-night sleep if I haven’t eaten during the shift (probably as I’m ketosis by this point). That might be something to consider?

[wheeghee]

That is the schedule I worked for about 12 years, 2 12s in house (one day, one night) and 2 days in the clinic. Different every week, impossible to get into any sort of pattern. So I appreciate this topic, too, because it can certainly be challenging. I have a colleague who preferred to work nights. She had just gestational diabetes with all three of her pregnancies and said that her blood sugars were much better working nights. Back when, I myself would crave soup and a warm blanket at 0300, and then later in the morning get home, eat through every carb in the house, and then crash for the day. I’m going to try your no noc food when I resume this type of schedule starting soon.

[Amy_Lynn]

New here. I work third shift and have been admittedly not doing completely keto. My weakness is wine. I count my carbs and sugars but when I want to sleep hard or had a stressful night it helps me relax. I have no real cravings for carbs, cutting back on cheese…but have not seen any weight loss. I figure I need to start IF and drop my habit. Sound about right? Also I stopped BC in November and have had one real period since(January). I strongly suspect I have a thyroid insufficiency and my hormones are out of wack. Any other advice? Kinda frustrated. Sorry. My comments and questions are all over the place.

[cywgdave]

If you think your thyroid is a problem do a search on the forums here for it, there’s a lot of chatter. Also, Ken Berry has a bunch of info on his youtube channel (kendberrymd). (I think he would be a great guest on the podcast too)

There’s also a lot of talk around iodine insufficiency causing a lot of thyroid problems. Dr. David Brownstein has a book out “Iodine, why you need it, why you can’t love without it” and there is a big section on how the thyroid gland needs iodine to function properly and if you are insufficient then lots of things don’t work right.

[ketonn]

I work night shift from 11pm to 730am and I think doing keto is the thing keeping me from burning out. I’m so happy I found it and became fat adapted before starting the job. If I was a carb burner I bet I would’ve gained so much more weight from the stressfulness of the shift in my circadian rhythm. Normally I don’t eat through my entire shift. Then I get home and sleep from 8am to about 2pm. After I wake up, I walk my dog or go to the gym before eating around 5pm. That’s either my one meal or I have another meal around 9p. I agree with the other posters that you just have to forget about meal times and eat when it’s right for you. The good thing about keto is it’s hard to overeat.

[CandyLindTX]

Also I stopped BC in November and have had one real period since(January). I strongly suspect I have a thyroid insufficiency and my hormones are out of wack.

Amy, despite having some stuff working against you, you can do this thing called keto! I would COMPLETELY IGNORE THE SCALE at first in your case. With your hormones in turmoil from stopping BC & starting a new way of eating, I think you should just concentrate on 1) <20 grams of carbs (net if you like), and “fat to satiety.” Eat til you’re full. Let your body get back into some kind of homeostasis and things will automatically get better. If you try the IF to cover your shift without eating, at least at first be prepared with fatty snacks so you won’t be miserable. Make sure you’re getting enough salt to prevent keto flu. Most people’s “enough salt” when they first start is NOT enough. Aim for a minimum of 4 g/day (4000 mg!). If you use a tracker like MFP or Cronometer, only look at your macros and salt intake and nothing else. After you’ve been doing this for 3-4 weeks, then if things aren’t feeling right or good for you, get in here and give us a shout on the Newbies board and we’ll help. In the meantime, read, read, read! There’s a ton of educational stuff in here. And recipes galore!

[Amy_Lynn]

Thank you for your advice. It’s March first and I’m gonna start fresh.

[Amy_Lynn]

Interestingly enough, I haven’t had the so called “keto flu” maybe I eased into it just right. idk. but i will keep plugging along. still using a macro calculator at this point. I am going to try fasting through my shift. I felt pretty good the one time I had only a fatty coffee and meal before I went to work and then a fatty tea or decaf when I got home before bed.

[unkunk69]

Jason. I’ve been working shift work for 10yrs. I’ve only recently started the Keto diet but I have noticed that when I work days I don’t lose as much(less sleep). Have you noticed anything like this?

[Dazzlarees]

I also work shift work in a hospital and generally I ‘fast’ during the night shift…not a purposeful intermittent fast but rather for the reason my body is having to deal with being awake when it wants to sleep - without having to deal with digesting meals too. A huge bonus of doing keto is I find my post nights recovery is so much improved. I wake up feeling more refreshed and with much more energy.