Severe Health Dangers from Plants~

#81

I did. It is by the entire read from Dr Kevin Stock as the original post.

thing is compelling evidence is showing a science path to follow, it is not close to drawing any real science facts and true conclusions.

Oh for some darn reason I can’t get that podcast to work and it is annoying me LOL but I am familiar with Dr Paul.

I truly think there is absolute facts and evidence and true conclusion that plant toxins effect the body. My first post shows that. There is science to back that up.

NOW after that there is a gazillion situations. Many who adopt carnivore walk in and find when they eliminate plant food they do well BUT THEY want a different lifestyle on their food of choice long term. So they add back whatever plant material slowly and see how it effects them. If they do well on some they obviously might adopt their personal choice and eat some. I so get that. We must do what we feel is best.

I am just saying so many physical body medical symptoms are from eating plants.

heck that guy in Scotland OD’d on brussel sprouts. He was on meds for another problem, ate up a big old plate of brussel sprouts and ended up in emergency…so…even little things like that are scary. In that grapefruit should not be eaten with BP meds. Fiber slows the rate at which the stomach empties, so it may slow the rate at which medications are absorbed, resulting in lower blood levels of certain prescriptions, such as antibiotics. Potassium from like bananas can be a bad combo on meds. Spinach, kale, cabbage and broccoli — for people taking blood thinners like warfarin munching on too much green can be bad. Vitamin K promotes blood clotting, which may counteract the blood-thinning benefits of anti-coagulant drugs.

So I mean if so many are on prescript meds right now, some foods are an absolute death sentence.

And why I say the above cause it is not a direct connection is that we are not dealing with a perfect world here. We are not ‘long ago’ when all was natural. We are so far from natural now it is crazy. So when we factor the real truth of this world, its toxins, its changes in chemical pollutants, pesticides, man made every nasty out there…….those types of things also sway my decision on what to eat. In that if the plants we know have troubles hitting your dinner plate…what does one choose? What they feel safest with and what science facts they hold more dear and will put them in a certain direction.

Break it down further.

trust your veg to big corps?
have your own backyard garden?

which is better? I choose the backyard garden :slight_smile:

So I mean there are levels of distinction thru this whole process of course.

I like this chat tho.

#82

Ah, OK, I see now. I didn’t click on any of the links in the PDF as I didn’t see any linked studies, but I do see that if I click on some of the hyperlinks, and then click further through to more articles on his website, he’s linked studies and references as “r” at the bottom of some of his posts. Got it now…

#83

I know, right? I am off clicking the links on your link you posted and following off on those links to other links and more…omg it can drive on batty for sure HAHA

follow the yellow brick road to magical OZ or follow the path to your destruction LOL

(Bob M) #84

Although mice studies are good for potentially explaining how things work.

(bulkbiker) #85

Key word is potentially and they can lead to some very incorrect assumptions so…

(Bob M) #86

True, but the protons thread on Hyperlipid is basically all data from mice. Without this type of data, Peter D. would not have been able to determine his protons theory.

Also, a lot of evidence against PUFAs (and for saturated fat) uses mice or rats. They test different diets, then sacrifice the animal to see what happened to their livers and the like. You can’t do that with humans.

While I think you have to look at studies in mice with a jaundiced eye, they still can provide very valuable evidence.

(Edith) #87

Just some thoughts:

I would imagine that we need environmental stressors to evolve. Giraffes wouldn’t have gotten long necks if they didn’t have the stress of having to share low hanging vegetation, for example.

People probably couldn’t handle drinking milk at first, but some groups evolved and developed gene mutations that allowed them to process dairy.

I believe some environmental stressors are helpful. But… of course, the animals with shorter necks didn’t survive to pass on their short neck genes. While the stressor may help the species in the long run, it probably didn’t help individual animals in the short run.

Also, many of our stressors cause damage by the time we are old and no longer reproducing. Those stressors are not advantageous to the survival of the species.

Like I said, just some ponderings. :thinking:

#88

I like your ponderings cause I have them like you also :slight_smile:
I was thinking sure some change and adaption to the body thru time evolution is more than understandable.

But like you the amt of what invades us daily does age and corrupt our cells so quick now. We can ‘buy’ a ton of things to combat all this trouble, from prescript meds to live longer and creams to take out wrinkles and more, lol, but at what cost when we do all that even?

Yea, when do the stressors do ya in vs. might help you?

#89

BUMP for new ZC people to read how plant toxins effect us negatively…this is a great read by Dr Stock!

(Bob M) #90

It’s a bit one-sided, don’t you think? This article makes it sound as if you will DIE if you eat any of those things. But that’s not the case.

For instance, I still eat chocolate, and if there is a detriment, I’ll be darned if I can tell what it is.

I even drink coffee and tea. I even eat roasted broccoli. Still eat some plants.

Are there SOME people who shouldn’t eat plants? Absolutely.

But the vast majority of us can eat some plants.

#91

No not at all.
It is what plants contain some toxins, as in ALL of them and how each body can react to overload of that or how it reacts physiclally in us and since we are all so individual, what one can eat simply can never be a cause of real trouble while another can’t go near it…so to me it is about toxins and the why it effects us…but yes, many should be darned scared of plant toxins. If you are one then ya know, but many can ingest low level toxins and do quite well thru life. Which one are ya in the end but the info is out there to know personal truths I think from the author. Personal life in what we eat is key here obvy. But toxins are in it all and each of us have to know us…thus the best way to start any and all cleaning menu diets is go all in elim. with meat first and add back, then we see truths for us personally. Meat has no ‘toxins’ to the levels plants carry.

#92

bump up for everyone to read why the plants rob our bodies from way more than we think :slight_smile: and why going into a keto, very low carb, or carnivore plan can help so many of us.

great read! bump for those who need to read this :slight_smile:

(Laurie) #93

Just thinking about how plants are used as medicine. They thin your blood or make you sleepy or numb pain … then we nonchalantly eat the same plants as “food.” Hmm.

When I lived in Korea, a favorite restaurant meal involved wrapping lettuce and other greens around pieces of barbecued meat. This tended to enjoyed in the evening. Once I invited a friend, who was a nursing professor, to eat it at lunchtime. She said, “Oh no, if I eat lettuce at lunchtime, I’ll be too sleepy to work in the afternoon.” I said lettuce doesn’t make you sleepy. She said, “Of course it does, everyone knows that!” I looked it up later, and she was right.

#94

bump for any new zc people to read :slight_smile:

#95

Or non ZC.

One can cherry pick on things found in plants that can cause this and that. But it was also eating plants that we were doing all fine and our life expectancy increased. Many vegetarians have very good health and they eat a lot of plants. Others mix everything and are doing fine. Take a look at the Japanese and so many more. They were doing fine with the rice and veggies and fish and everything. It’s when processed foods become an important part of diet that people suffer.

It was processed foods that caused the problem, and overdoing them. The supersize everything mentality.

I look around and see lots of healthy people who eat fruits, veggies, meat, fats and they’re doing fine.

Why the need to demonize food? It’s the choice to be ZC so difficult and unpleasant one needs to find validation?

It reminds me of my grandmother fearmongering me (when I was too little to escape it) with stories of how horrible hell would be, so I’d understand why she forced me to go to church.

I’m sure there is certainly stuff in broccoli that can harm you. And there are stuff that neutralizes it, or it’s simply that our microbiome, or our own bodies can deal with that. Or perhaps one would have to consume it in very large quantities to be harmed by it.

Yes, take a rat and feed it not the broccoli, but huge amounts of that particular chemical, kill the poor thingy for no good reason. Then claim broccoli is a monster.

It wasn’t the monster broccoli, or its comrade The Evil Spinach that made people sick, or fat… unless for a tiny part of the population with some kind of rare allergy, or something, but I’d be really curious to know if it has ever really happened.

People stop eating junk in humongous amounts and see their health improving. They lose a lot of weight and see their health improving. Then, yes, it was the monster broccoli that was making me sick! Let me find the chemical in it that I can point my finger at and blame and let’s forget that I was overfeeding myself for years with lots of processed foods and everything in huge quantities and it could be I’ve just messed up with my system so much, now even water can cause an allergic reaction!

Perhaps years of abuse while one is overfeeding in all sorts of things causes an immune system response and then one becomes triggered by everything. Who knows? Then, only then, perhaps, maybe one should be afraid of… broccoli?

#96

gotta remember, the information is out there. are you one to react?
many are point blank have sensitivites and reactions to plant matter ingested. We know this.

allergens are lower in animal protein but of course humans can easily be allergeric to shellfish etc. but plants trump animal all the time for reactionary troubles.

little info on your innocent broccoli:

To start with, broccoli is a well-described goitrogen. Goitrogens are chemicals that suppress the function of the thyroid gland by interfering with iodine uptake, a key mineral needed to make thyroid hormone. This blocking of iodine uptake causes the thyroid gland to enlarge; a goitre is the end result.

Broccoli is loaded with goitrogens, particularly one group called thiocyanates. The consequence of eating these thiocyanates is the potential to develop the very serious condition of hypothyroidism. What is hypothyroidism? Well, do you or have you ever experienced any of these symptoms?

  • Fatigue and low energy levels
  • Unexplained weight gain
  • Depression
  • Slow heart rate
  • Intolerance to cold temperatures
  • Fatigued and aching muscles
  • Dry, coarse skin
  • Puffy face
  • Hair loss
  • Constipation
  • Problems with concentration

If you said yes to any of these, then you’re a candidate for being hypothyroid and I would be looking at broccoli as the prime candidate for causing this.

another blurb:
Four cups of broccoli sprouts a day may exceed the safe dose of the cruciferous phytonutrient sulforaphane.

---------Of course I am wondering did you ‘actually read’ the article that was originally posted or you going on a tangent about how great plants are cause ya eat them and do fine on them?

of course processed foods and chemicals and bad farm gmo and pesticide practices come into play, but plants from the minute they were founded in the ecosystem had toxic substances internally to protect them from any predators so? The bad stuff has always been in plants. Always.

#97

read more here on why plants are more dangerous then we are lead to believe:

and of course ya got the double added ick…pesticides: veg and fruit are nasty :slight_smile:

of course meat/seafood has its issues obviously with vaccines for animal husbandry and such, but in the end, plants are point blank worse than the meat/seafood industry if we just compare apples to apples here and plants lose out on better health for us.

hey eat them if you want, no one said you can’t, but don’t deny the science behind truths on what they do to many people. And they do bad things!

#98

The key information is “… potential to…”

Take a poor lab rat*, feed it one pint of the stuff in 2 min, watch it die, then write an article to say broccoli is harmful.

Water has the same harmful “potential”.

*Don’t harm rats, my advice is just rhetorical.

#99

Science and truth don’t belong in the same sentence. Science isn’t about truth. Beliefs are about truth. Science is about debate, is about open mindedness, is always ready to change if evidence to the contrary is found.

#100

say the same for all those health benefits veg give and how easily can people overdose and get sick from ‘those health benefits’…so…

like I said it eat if ya want, this info is for zc people wanting some answers about why they are sick on veg/fruit and how these items do effect the human system.

Science is fact. Fact is truths about those facts so? Science can be founded on pure facts and can be very debatable so open to subjection etc and all that, but at some point we can believe a toxin is a toxin and it is bad for the human body and this stuff is contained in veg so?

everything can be debated but in the end it is up to the individual to pick their poison and run with doing just that. Some don’t want the veg/fruit poisons :slight_smile: