Thank you for this. I’ve been thinking about why my weight has been slowly creeping back up and this has come at just the right time I think.
Also been dealing with a dislocated then frozen shoulder and tortuous PT to rehab it so there’s that, too.
I think the wisdom in eschewing (NOT chewing, hah!) plant based foods is beginning to appeal to me as an intervention, and to help heal.
Autopsy report:
What do most faithful zero carb carnivores and ketoers die of or will die of?
Either way If you eat animals your still eating PLANTS?
Eat just plants or meat your still in the same boat?
Footnotes:
[1]“Grass Fed” may not be such a good thing either: ”…Low-carbohydrate diets that focus on animal proteins have increased levels of saturated fats, and run the risk of higher levels of synthetic hormones and antibiotics used to fatten up commercial livestock.
The livestock bioaccumulates these toxins within their fat cells.
Does this mean that grassfed beef is the answer? Beef still bioaccumulate toxins in their fat cells –whatever toxins are in the air and in the ground. These toxins then accumulate in our bodies as a result. …” …More
[2] “…A second way in which animal antibiotic use can affect humans is through the consumption of antibiotic residues in meat, which then “provide a selection pressure in favor of [antibiotic-resistant] bugs in humans,” Evans explained. …The use of antibiotics in animals may affect the human gut bacteria. …” …More
[3] “…Over one hundred of antimicrobials, including β-lactams, aminoglycosides, tetracyclines, amphenicols, macrolides, sulfonamides, fluoroquinolones, lincosamides, polypeptides, and polyene, have been used in food-producing animals around the world. …” …More
image link[4] ”…Candida is opportunistic, meaning that it will grow out of balance if your health or constitution has been weakened, typically by using antibiotics. Because non-organic meat contains antibiotics, many of us are consuming them, unwittingly, on a daily or at least weekly basis. …” …More
Looking at the chart below what does not have Lectins in it?
Answer: NOTHING (you would starve to death trying to avoid lectins because they are in your meat also and your body produces lectins all by itself.)
What are lectins?
“…Lectins are a defense mechanism which ALL life forms appear to have. Essentially, they are a low level toxin. The purpose of lectins is to discourage other animals from eating that life form. By triggering a negative reaction in the predator, that life form is then viewed as an undesirable food source. Hence, aiding its future survival1. …”
Seems like something we really ought to know more about, right?
“…Glyca-binding proteins (GBPs) are a category of proteins which bind specifically to certain sugar molecules. The “glyca” is the same prefix you see in the word glycation. That describes what happens after a protein or fat binds with a sugar molecule.
This binding process can cause inflammation and the creation of advanced glycation end products (AGEs), which are compounds associated with numerous age-related diseases. It’s why the apparent anti-glycation benefits of carnosine are so intriguing1. …” …More https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnosine
There are more lectins and oxalates in everything you eat then you would care to know about; meat or plants.
Well, we all breath air which is full of pollution, so no matter how you look at it, our bodies are getting toxins; either by the food we eat, the air we breath and the water we drink. Probably the clothes we wear, too. 
I looked through some of the articles you posted. The first did not fill me with confidence. The references in the first article were from cohort studies and the vegetarian pushing Harvard School of Public Health.
I understand lectins are in all the foods we eat, but not all lectins are created equal. Kidney and Castor beans come to mind.
The article about antibiotic use in animals had this to say at the end:
“Current evidence indicates that there is no direct impact of antibiotic residues in meat on human health, but the risk of generating antibiotic-resistant bacteria in animals poses a potential risk to humans. However, human antibiotic use is far more damaging in both respects."
Actually those are very similar to Lima beans which is a carbohydrate blocker (super high in lectin). You can actually lose weight eating Lima beans with carbohydrates but it will wreck havoc on your heart rate (heart murmurs).
Lectins will kill crickets and other insects because they starve to death (carb blocker?) so they hybrid commercial vegetables to make sure they are high in lectins.
Organic vegetables are more prone to be eaten by insects (low lectins?).
Have eaten veggies for 60 years. In the peak of health. Just saying. …
They are referring to a chemical weapon[4] mustard gas used in chemo therapy, isothiocyanates; myrosinase, sulforaphane i.e. mustard seeds.
It’s only harmful to your thyroid if you are not eating enough iodine rich foods[3]. But works great for the targeting apoptosis in the proliferation of cancer cells.
[3] 3 “Healthy” Habits That Could Be Hurting Your Thyroid Gland
[4] “…Mustard gas medicine. …By World War II, at least two dozen medical researchers transformed mustard agents into cancer chemotherapy. In the 1940s, sulfur mustard, commonly called mustard gas and nitrogen mustard, a derivative of mustard gas, became a new form of cancer treatment. …” …More
Interesting paper from the year 1978:
IDENTIFICATION OF THE DIETARY LECTIN, WHEAT GERM AGGLUTININ, IN HUMAN INTESTINAL CONTENTS: ”…Persons consuming an ordinary diet are not likely to achieve a high dietary intake of plant lectins. Persons on high fiber diets containing large amounts of vegetable products or whole grains may achieve intakes of plant lectin comparable to those ingested in this study. The nutritional significance of dietary lectins remains unclear. It is well known that the nutritive value of many legumes is poor unless subjected to heat treatment which denatures most lectins. Dietary lectin has been implicated in the impaired growth rates seen in experimental animals fed unheated plant protein. However, uncertainty remains as to the general validity of this observation in view of the finding that selective removal of the lectin from soybeans does not improve the rate of growth or the protein efficiency ratio of animals ingesting raw soy protein.14 There is no conclu-
sive evidence that dietary wheat germ agglutinin is toxic; however, the lectin component of ricin (castorbean lectin) is known to be toxic in man.15. The interaction of dietary lectins with small or large intestinal epithelia has received scant attention in spite of the well known effects of these agents in vitro at even low concentrations. Concanavalin A agglutinates isolated epithelial cells from the human fetal intestine but not from the adult. Wheat germ agglutinin causes moderate agglutination of both fetal and adult human small intestinal cells.17 Both concanavalin A and wheat germ agglutinin bind to carcinoembryonic antigen.18 Certain lectins may impair vitamin B, transport in the guinea pig intestine. It is entirely possible that dietary lectins might alter intestinal epithelial cell function or inhibit binding of other substances to intestinal epithelial cells. Moreover, lectins might also alter bacterial growth by providing environmental substrates favoring the proliferation of certain bacteria in a manner similar to the observed adaptation of a specific bacteria population to the presence of human blood group B glycoprotein. …” …More
Thought this was interesting also:
Neuronal Transcytosis of WGA Conjugated Protein: ABSTRACT: Neuronal transcytosis was observed at the stage when no neurotransmitter was released after the injection of wheat germ agglutinin-conjugated horseradish peroxidase (WGA-HRP; WGA = 22 kDa, HRP = 40 kDa) into the vagus nerve. The co-injection of Rab3A-siRNA with WGA-HRP into the vagus nerve was performed to further examine this phenomenon. This co-injection resulted in the transcytosis of WGA-HRP, both of the passing type, by which it crossed the synapses, and of the secretion type followed by endocytosis of postsynaptic membranes. These findings raised the possibility in vivo that WGA plays an important role in the transcytosis of protein. Therefore, WGA may be a valuable tool for therapeutic drug targeting via transcytosis. The ability of WGA-conjugated Amyloid β (WGA-Aβ) to decrease amyloid deposits in Alzheimer’s disease was investigated. The conjugation of WGA to amyloid-β (1-40) (Aβ; 5 kDa) was confirmed. WGA-Aβ was then shown to move to terminals by axonal flow in vivo as well as WGA-HRP. WGA-Aβ was also observed in the nodose ganglion cells and terminals after injections of fluorescent Aβ (FAβ) into the vagus nerve and fluorescent WGA (FWGA) into the common carotid artery. These studies suggested that WGA-Aβ could be localized to solitary neurons via transcytosis. …” …More
very true in that with dairy, even a small amt. you react. So many of us have ‘small reactions’ from plant and dairy and most are that smaller reaction so we wave it on by. How much damage is it doing? The jury is out on it. I don’t think real harm happens on it fast, it is that long term build up and break down of our internal systems that comes into play.
I agree definintely to a certain level tho the physical side takes the beating ya know LOL Like if we run forever our legs know it physically.
I do think brain and body are connected, but the brain isn’t running truly and the legs are so I think that some point we have to break the bond and just focus on one sometimes.
I know for me I can ‘enjoy some green and fruit’ if I want trouble LOL
not so much on the green. I can do up some asparagus etc. and be ok. My guts don’t go too wonky on it. But fruit. Woof. Sugar hit sends me reeling. Can’t go there.
but nice thing is for me the taste of that asparagus and more veg I could eat just doesn’t taste good to me anymore. Longer I did carnivore and then went back and tried a few things like asparagus the more it tasted like old nasty grass with dirt LOL yea I know 
Truly tho if someone wants some veg in their lives I get it. I think when one drops the processed junk from life…walk into more keto etc…and drops to meat and veg mostly…it is a great combination for so many. Much improved health. But if one has a bit more trouble the veg is where to look in their menu ya know…like don’t cut protein and fat, cut out the darn broccoli
I think all the plants and seeds etc. give low levels of toxins. But I also know a person can live on them easily if they are not effected directly in bad form. I guess it boils down to know yourself and how you react and do the best that suits you.
AND THIS IS THE WAY YOU COME INTO THE THREAD?
how do carnivores and ketoers die?
Can’t deal with you. I won’t read one link. I won’t read your posts. I won’t ever respond to your posts.
Others can have at ya LOL I ain’t bothering ever. Got way too old real fast with your game. ugh.
bye bye
Brian I am still doing some research for more in depth answer to you
but my old saying of any toxins in the body can’t be good stands, but I see the ‘chemical’ side of what you are saying and checking out more info on it all. very interesting to me actually, want to find out a bit more on it.
So what it boils down to (no pun intended) when we cook our food it destroys lectins that’s all I was trying to point out my Dear Fang!
When we eat raw things (plants and meat) they tend to block complex carbohydrates but not refined carbohydrates… how interesting?
Who needs read anything we will just listen to you?
Common sense is not needed?
been conversing with a lot of wonderful people. you just won’t be one of them.
you can converse with whomever will chat up with ya. I am just saying I won’t. hey it is cool, you chat up all ya want. you go for it.
tell us carnivores and keto followers all about our deaths.
You know we love to hear it but this is my last post cause we can’t go there ya know…it will ruin the thread, ruin any good from it cause there are some very great thoughts on the board from very smart people and experiences. I don’t want that shot to heck and back.
whatever SpaceB, I just personally can’t stand it anymore.
You forget this is a public forum so you must accept whatever comes your way, science is always open to debate and scrutiny and always will be.
You could make your own private forum and just eliminate anyone who does not agree with you although that is something I would not call reliable info but that’s up to you?
Good luck with that attitude because your losing your own common sensibility in the process?
Hey I didn’t imply any of that. I said quite frankly it was my common sense in play not to respond to you only. I have no troubles with others chatting it out with ya and more. It won’t be me It is cool SpaceB.
now onto our scheduled program
hmmm, Brian this is a big can of worms opening up here LOL
Sipping from a Poisoned Chalice
from my link…
The Texas Institute for Advancement of Chemical Technology Inc., which initially sponsored Calabrese’s database, put out a flyer in 1998 citing examples of hormesis such as dioxin, mercury, and the pesticide lindane; the brochure declared sunnily that hormesis could allow “society to enjoy the benefits of many chemicals that have been banned.” Calabrese says he doesn’t think it’s that black and white. “There will be circumstances where the response appears to be beneficial, and cases where any change [in a standard] might not be advisable,” he says. Nevertheless, Calabrese argues that chemical carcinogens are being overregulated.
Although many scientists applaud Calabrese’s tenacity for bringing hormesis into the scientific mainstream, they point out that not all hormetic effects are beneficial. For example, vom Saal stunned his colleagues with a 1997 report linking extremely low levels of the plastics ingredient bisphenol-A fed to pregnant mice and enlarged prostate glands in their male offspring—the reverse of what is observed at higher doses.
Calabrese and likeminded scientists are bullish on the prospect of their colleagues coming around to the importance of hormesis, which they are convinced will transform medicine, toxicology, and pharmacology. Many skeptics, however, are neither fomenting such a revolution nor rooting for it to begin.
----my thoughts…so it is a widely debated issue.
It has believers and it has non-believers. Both have some proven science on their side.
I think it boils down to what chemical stressors are being added and dose amts. and more.
Controlled in a lab. Not using ‘plant veg. toxins’ per say etc. as a direct link and use in these tests. Heck most of the science is based on Dioxins. (Dioxins are mainly byproducts of industrial practices. They are produced through a variety of incineration processes, including improper municipal waste incineration and burning of trash, and can be released into the air during natural processes, such as forest fires and volcanoes. Almost every living creature has been exposed to dioxins or dioxin-like compounds)
Now they say in the article that we all have low level stressors in our body every single day. But is it needed? Or is it unwanted? This is a big open debate and not a true science just yet from what I am reading.
Now correct me if wrong with more info. I find this very cool but my overall thoughts are not supporting it.
Natural stressors and a natural lifestyle and environment from very old days. The body would and could cope with plant toxins on small levels and be reactive and change as these toxins were introduced thru diet cause very old times, no meat, ya ate veg to survive. One had to so obviously the body being very adaptable has processes in place to survive thru 2 lines of food. Keto and glucose. Keto meat, glucose thru plants. So this would be a normal action. Normal for the body to tackle some plant toxins and change, react, correct etc…but no science says ‘ya get stronger’. Nothing to support that right now.
Now put us modern.
omg. nothing is the same literally.
gmo enhanced toxin load in food.
every chemical made by mankind floating around out there.
air pollutants
environmental such as massive electrical and emfs and more around us.
life stress is not normal at all LOL heck we all know that one
So I have to say on this toxic load being ‘somewhat’ safe in that the body can deal but add a ton of modern day from that list above, you got more problems. Maybe that ‘less toxic load’ in that plant is what triggers catastrophic failure of your cells?
What is that tip point?
And if hermetic stressors are changed on the evaluation of risk level, like chemical companies would love to have happen…banned things come back cause they are ‘ok in small dose’ now on a new risk chart.
Hmmm, I need to read more on it but I am finding that with modern life and new plants and values put there on toxin loads and what our bodies are exposed to in current day life. I can’t see adding any more stressors to one’s cells is a good thing. Not on that level of saying it is truly beneficial.
Now I wrote a ton here…you need a ton of time to check it out and find some info etc and respond if ya want. I thought it was very interesting when I looked more into it. But from a ‘good thing’ point of view I am finding it hard to go that route at all.
very cool chat Brian
I would imagine that in the past, when we ate a cyclic diet due to the changing seasons, maybe plant toxins were not so bad. We ate different fruits and veggies for a short period, changed to a different fruit or veggie as the next type ripened and summer progressed until the winter when we didn’t eat any and then our bodies got a break from the toxins.
That probably is the true way we need to eat.
agree 100%.
food of yesteryear is not food now. even ‘organics’ and all can’t equal yesteryear in any fathom.
I think old follow the seasons eating and meat hunting is just never coming back and we can’t throw that ‘what was good eons ago’ for our bodies and how nature dealt with low level toxins could even be remotely the same as today.
What our bodies fought back then will never be the same as modern life. Very hard to put them side by side.
What is spooky also is the other thought I have…I mean the body is super adaptive etc and will work like heck to save us thru bad situations, like starvation, disease, toxins…but are we ‘so surrounded’ now, immersed and cocooned in modern polluted life that is ALL bad mostly in that the body can’t cope anymore? Like we are taking ourselves straight into extinction as a species and are too stupid to see it? ahhh, man I don’t wanna think too much on all this LOL
