Sept. 2022 Maintenance

(Central Florida Bob ) #41

ooo… A Taylor. I kind of have the hots for a T-5z, but can’t justify the expense (I’m retired, “on a fixed income” as they say - as if anyone could just go and get a raise whenever they felt like it). My main acoustic is a Breedlove with a long, weird story behind it, and the electric I play the most is an Epiphone Les Paul. I play it more than my Gibson LP.

Anyway, if I can’t start on the carnivore approach that they’re talking about, I could start tracking what I eat. It still seems like a lot of work for dubious results, but I suppose it might help.

Years ago, I started at 265 and declared that my goal should be 195. I’ve gotten there a couple of times, but I always did during periods with lots of fasting and (if nothing else) that messes with your fluid balance and I was always concerned I was seeing water weight and I should shoot for 190 or a little better. I never broke 192. No matter what I did. That should have been achievable; I’m not talking 2% bodyfat, it’s more like 25%.

While I loved fruit and miss it, I think I had pieces of a peach last summer ('21, not a few weeks ago), and a few pieces of freeze-dried strawberries back around New Year’s. I still use various artificial sweeteners, have a diet root beer once a day (aspartame, ace-K) and while I’ve tested myself by measuring blood sugar after drinking one, it has been a while (two years?). My carb intake today so far has been 2 grams in some hard cheese, and I typically stay under 30, like I said somewhere above.

Yesterday, I intended to start a 40 hour fast until today at noon, but after the endoscopy, I felt bad enough by dinner time that I had a pure protein dinner. Doing one fasting day a week helps with maintaining, but I’d like to drop down that 190lb goal for once and for all.

(Diana) #42

I thought the whole point of fasting and the reason it’s different from calorie restriction is that it isn’t supposed to impact RMR, as your body is fed in full when you do eat. Vs calorie restriction where it’s starting to reduce RMR as it doesn’t know when it will be fed again and/or when it is fed it’s at a lower calorie level so it tries to compensate by reducing to meet that calorie level. This is the whole concept of what Jason Fung discusses.


Some studies say one thing, some another. The number of RMR test on humans is tiny and doesn’t include any large cohort of women. Studies on fasting were mostly were on mice, worms, and non-human critters. But if you go into the hypocaloric diet studies on humans and RMR, which are plentiful and go back 100 years, the effect starts pretty quickly, 36 hours. And women seem to suffer from the effect more than men. Some studies only look at 14 hour fasts, which is a typical night for a lot of people. A few look at 30-day fasts. So there’s a dearth of 18 and 36 hour human fasting studies.

It’s everyone else’s business what they do, but I already have a lowered RMR from years upon years of low-calorie dieting. I’m not risking losing another single point. Eating 1450 calories a day on whole foods, exercising daily, and still ending up over 200 pounds isn’t much fun. Everyone yells at you for “eating like a pig,” including doctors, who are shockingly ignorant about the RMR effect of the stupid diets they promote, but you’re actually hungry a lot of the day if you try eating like that for years. It’s sustainable (or is for damned stubborn people), but it’s not fun to always be hungry. And it can lead to refeeding (short term “binges” where your desperate body tries to get some calories in there to preserve little things like, oh, heart mass.)

And no, moving really heavy weights for years didn’t shift it for me. I had 142 pounds of lean body mass, tested the same day by water displacement that I had RMR tested, and it wasn’t helpful in the least. If the “muscle mass adds BMR” is actually a thing, it’s a tiny thing for women, or at least this woman, and I have a difficult time believing I’m all that weird in physiology.

Once RMR is gone, it’s gone. Wave bye-bye to it forever. It’s not like weight. You can gain 50 pounds and take it off. You lose 500 calories of RMR, and it’s just gone.

Eating lots of meat, keeping the protein over 100 (and better 120 g) seems to help raise the amount of food I can eat, as does exercise. But then exercise makes you hungrier, so that’s kind of a wash.

I grasp that people are very fond of fasting because it helps them lose weight faster. So does 500 calories per day. (and it’s ketogenic, 500 calories, so no, ketogenic diets don’t protect against the lowering-RMR effect at all.) But “fast” isn’t necessarily “good” or healthy or sustainable. If I could go back and talk to 20 year old me, I’d beg her to not starve. She probably wouldn’t listen because back then, being barely overweight, she was desperate for social approval, poor thing, but I’d give it a go.

So I shout into the wind on this one from time to time. I suspect in 10 years, the fad will have passed and we’ll grasp what all dangers there were with it, too late, beyond the ones we already know of (it triggers EDs in some; ED counselors would argue it is one, per se.)

One of my food mantras is: eat when you’re hungry. Nature gives us hunger for a reason. If we’re on sugar and grains, it’s hard to understand what hunger is, but once off them, it gets clearer. I listen to my body now, though I surely did not when I was young, and stupid from desperation for social approval. Thankfully, I’m grown up now, and don’t give a rat’s ass what anyone but my half-dozen dearest friends thinks of me.

The fasting talk is why I haven’t really engaged much in the low-carb world for the past several years. How I’d love to find a place where such talk was forbidden! Amy Berger, Keto without the Crazy, is one of the few people I can bear to listen to for long. She’s utterly sensible.


Nice guitars! When I played 2-3 hours per day (I’m a slug about it now), I started getting that guitar covetousness, which I’m sure you’re familiar with. 1920s parlor guitars called to me.

Hahaha, never thought that about “fixed income” but you’re right. Yes, you and I could go get a part-time job just like any 30 year old with a toddler trying to make ends meet these days. Let’s hope the social security raise doesn’t get eaten up by Medicare again. That doesn’t help me buy bacon and steak! (I don’t care what they say about inflation, my personal food bill has doubled in the past 3 years. I used to be able to eat for $100/month! And I have to burn gasoline to get to the store. And I saved too much money like one is SUPPOSED to do so I don’t qualify for food stamps because I have a chunk of money set aside for “if I ever need assisted living.” I should have been a wastrel, and I’d be better off!)


I love my tiny fasts… It’s so wonderful to be perfectly satiated for 20+ hours… I love that. but I am fine with smaller ones as long as I don’t get hungry every HOUR in my natural eating window. It’s… Not fun.

Eating when hungry was my number 1 rule, actually. Now I think differently but it’s a moot point as when I feel hunger nowadays? My very clear, impossible to miss hunger signs on high-carb gone soft (that was cool) on keto and disappeared on carnivore. Not all the time but I eat way earlier than I could get hungry, usually. Hunger is unreliable to me so I just ignore it most of the time, just like the state of my stomach, who cares about that? :smiley:

I eat when I

  1. get tempted
  2. feel the need to eat (it’s not the same as hunger, it’s weakness, loss of focus and maybe dizziness and temporal loss of vision. I mean half a second. my body have a pretty big repertoir if it wants to me motivated to eat. WHY it doesn’t give me hunger signs then, no idea. but he does that too sometimes just not often).

It works well so no problem. And I do have some baby hunger here and there (that I either ignore or not). Not having ANY hunger and/or appetite for a week actually bothers me, it feels strange even if it has little effect on my eating.

I don’t know my RMR or TDEE anymore but I suppose it’s what I had a decade ago. We will see when I start to lose fat, I can’t figure it out when I maintain as my maintenance range is HUGE. And even if I eat more than that, I can’t notice it for a long time as my weight gain per month isn’t measurable, it’s way too small for that. At least my weight is very stable, fluctuations aren’t its thing (surely some happens, I am a human but I hardly can measure it on a mere personal scale. I ignore it anyway as seeing 75kg for the 100th time is soooo boring. I know I am 75kg in 2021 and 2022, no need to check it. I focus on my pants, at least they show something).

I can’t do low-cal so they never could mess with my metabolism. Well I starved once but that was quick so surely my metabolism slowed a tiny bit and then it quickened again. My metabolism is super good at quickening but it goes back to normal quickly too, it wouldn’t be logical not to from an evolutionary standpoint. My calorie deficit always was small or (typically) nonexistent (I normally ate at a surplus, nowadays it’s not that common but of course it happens regularly, it’s me) so things went well.
I feel a tad lucky now but I still had enough of not losing any fat (except a little temporarily) in more than a decade… And I wish to avoid overeating without any particular effort.

Normally the slowed metabolism quickens. Probably the shortest the starvation and the healthiest the person, the quicker but tons of people did it. And yeah, we heard about people who weren’t lucky at all. It’s quite tragic :frowning: Some people are even special and they just can’t lose fat (unless they eat, like, nothing but maybe their body break down first). Their body responds to a small deficit with lowering the metabolism, it’s quite crazy. We normal people lose fat without any such problem at a cute deficit (while the metabolism stays the same) as far as I know but it’s definitely true for my family members and tons of other people. But those people are different. I knew such a person, she did keto too, among others, she tried basically everything (oh and needed a restricted diet due to various health problems, poor one)… It was such a struggle, experiments and efforts and nothing happened. I only need to eat little! Not like I can without very serious “tricks” but still, at least my metabolism is pretty okay for my stats and I can eat much and still don’t gain.

Indeed, fasting isn’t necessarily good. I never liked when certain parts of forums pushed it. It’s my wish as if I can do it, it’s very good to me. I don’t ignore my body’s wishes, I only fast if I feel better that way. Maybe a tiny extra push here and there but I am way more prone to eat very unnecessarily.

(Diana) #46

Eeek. Your comment noting once RMR is gone it’s gone forever is gonna give me nightmares. I truly hope you and all of us can restore it (for those with restriction diets in our history…).


I’ve hit goal! Waited 4 days to check it’s not an error, battery is ok on scales so it’s looking like it’s true!
Now the challenge to keep it off really starts! I’m going to increase the exercise and get some gym equipment for home use as I don’t have spare time to hit the gym.
Have a lovely day and thanks for being here☀️


Congratulations! :partying_face:


Yay!!! Congrats! :tada:

(Robin) #50

Hey hey! Congratulations! What a feeling, right?

Now, if you can… avoid the scale for a while if going up a pound or four will mess with your head. I’ve been at goal for almost a year now, but there is a tendency to go up 2 or 3 lbs for a few days then suddenly dip below my goal for a few days…. And all while I have changed nothing. I finally put the scale in the closet and only check at the docs. I remain in the same range. My maintenance weight is 155. I range from 152 to 157. And it no longer holds any meaning for me.

But as always, you do you! And again… congratulations :tada:

(KCKO, KCFO) #51


Well done. Now the REAL work begins, keeping it all off.

(Pete A) #52

It would hold meaning if it was only going up! :slight_smile:

Nice job everyone!!!


Thanks, that’s great advice, I’m going to leave the scales with a friend for a week to get out of the habit of using them. I know they mess with my head but staying off them in the morning is proving difficult!
I didn’t expect to feel this good from eating clean whole food, I love not stressing over clothes not fitting but I really love the settled/confident feeling Keto has brought. I can now continue my life plan that my health stopped 14 months ago, that’s priceless, I’m tremendously grateful.x

(Robin) #54

Yes, it is priceless. And, “putting your life on hold” is the perfect phrase!
The older I get the more I realize time is fleeting. (So hard not to break into the whole Time Warp song here.)

(KCKO, KCFO) #55

I have a lot of those moments. One of the best songs ever too.

(Robin) #56

Now it’s stuck in my head…… again.

(KCKO, KCFO) #57

Tell me about it, I have been humming it and even dancing it a bit.

(KCKO, KCFO) #58

I am stalled but at a number that doesn’t upset me. Still going to continue the timed window of eating for another week and see what happens, this could be just a blip. Also, I got distressing news about a dear friend, so I think my worry/stress level might have something to do with this.

I have upped my magnesium game. And I slept through the night and was really rested this morning, no muscle issues at all. I no longer use mag. citrate, I use Glycinate now, I think this is working well for me. .

How are the rest of you doing this month? Any wins, losses, happy news, or anything else to share?


I will tell what happened to me weight wise as I will eventually weigh myself I suppose… But seeing the same number for years gets old, I forget to do it for several weeks at a time and now I focus on my pants anyway.
My pretty (okay, it’s worn now and it’s probably its last season. still prettier than whatever I wore all summer, I run out of proper pants but my hate towards clothes shopping is nearly infinite) pair of jeans with a flower and butterfly embroidery (but it’s modest, I dislike girly things. well butterflies are butterflies, not exactly girly but kinda?)… That I used to wear all last summer and couldn’t this summer because I got just a wee bit thicker (with the same weight)… That one. I can wear in again. With long thick socks or embracing the Winhof method (still didn’t look it up properly, I just take cold showers and now I go out scantily clad in 12C sometimes… That is a tad low, sleeveless shirts are more like for 14C if you ask me) it will serve me well in the next months… Or at least until I can fit into my proper length but less cute looking gray pants. I can wear it now but it’s a tad tight. Just a tad.
Why I am THIS chatty about things not even related to food now (as I talk about food walls of texts all the time on this forum)…

I am quite sure I already have the right method and just need to get my stuff together! I have more and more proper days now. Yesterday I ate a ton but still didn’t overeat and today probably became an OMAD, I was so satiated until so long and had a proper sized meal, not my now-usual smallish ones! (Now-usual is a word now, sorry, it is.)
I always had and needed substantial meals but carnivore changed a lot of things. It’s so good to get my proper sized meals back, much more convenient.

(KCKO, KCFO) #60

Off the stall. I was surprised, I’ve had a couple of really stressful days, DH had a heart attack and needed stents put in. They placed two in and he will have to go back to get a third one in a different location. Oh the joys of hanging out in an ICU.

I hope everyone else is having more fun than me right now.