Runners' Hangout

(GINA ) #21

I think running got a bad rap early on in the ‘ketosphere’ for a few reasons. The attachment to ‘carbo-loading’ (which isn’t much of a thing anymore in running communities) was one. Also, CICOers using running as something to ‘work off’ calories is counter to low carb and what makes it work, plus the early primal/paleo folks (Mark Sisson) dissing of all ‘cardio’ as worthless didn’t help.

But runners just kept on running. Not to just to eat carbs, not because of calories, in spite of Mark Sisson (Who has come around, by the way, and wrote a book about running. If you can’t beat em, join em).

(GINA ) #22

If anyone wants to start running, I would recommend a walk/run program like Couch to 5K, or None to Run. You need some kind of interval timer (they sell them on Amazon or there are a ton of free smart phone apps), and you walk for X time, then run for X time, and the ratio of running to walking goes up over several weeks until you are running straight through.

If you don’t want to run straight through, there is a whole method of running called Galloway where people always run intervals, and many wind up faster and with fewer injuries than when they run straight through.

I get bored running too, plus I don’t like to listen to myself breathe, so I always listen to music or a podcast or book. I have headphones I can hear through, so it isn’t unsafe and I can hear cars and such very well. I live out in the country so I don’t run near many cars, but I can hear them. The phone also plays interval ques over the music if I am using them.

(David Cooke) #23

CICO is very much a ‘thing’ amongst runners still. This morning a running forum I participate in advised a guy that wanted to lose weight to eat less and run more, not unanimously but almost. I try not to get involved in those discussions, some guys get quite indignant. You get a lot of " I ran 10K so now I can eat five doughnuts" comments also…

(Bob M) #24

My last post about the back (don’t want to derail you runners). Here’s a post about the big 3 exercises:

Oddly, the one that’s hardest for me to do correctly is the curl up.

(Reminder to self: try the moving forward when doing the side up; I keep forgetting to try that.)

I’ve been doing 5 curl ups of 10 seconds each. Then 2 sets of side ups on right arm, transition to planks on elbows, transition to side ups on left arm. 10 seconds each hold. Could do three sets (or increase time, particularly on the planks), but always seem to be out of time. Then, sets of 5-4-3 of the last one (can’t remember name now). 10 second hold each pose. Could do more here, too, but I run out of time.

(Edith) #25

I use “You Are Your Own Gym” for body weight exercises. He uses different versions of hyperextentions (i.e. supermans and swimmers) and some other lower back exercises. I really think they help. I used to find them very irritating, but the more I’ve done them, the less irritating they’ve become.

When I was in physical therapy there were exercises I had to do even if they hurt, as long as the pain didn’t get worse and worse during the course of the exercise. I learned that even if the exercise is irritating, it may still be beneficial over time. Pain is not necessarily a reason not to do an exercise.

Edit: Those exercises listed above were all ones I had to do in PT.

(Edith) #26

That’s because it is inside and stationary. It is much nicer being outside smelling the smells and listening to the birds chirping.

(GINA ) #27

Oh, I know know that’s true. I was using that as a reason that running got a bad rap in the low carb world.

(Butter Withaspoon) #28

Thanks BobM! Even though it’s similar to what I do, the differences, and going through some exercises from scratch is helpful. I’ve just done an excellent half session of back therapy incorporating that easy side plank at the end. Usually side planks set off a pain cycle for me. I love these! I’ll do the second half of my session after this mug of broth Mmmmm. Hopefully next week I’ll take a few run steps.

It’s great to read all the activity on this thread, reluctant runners and all!

(Edith) #29

Thursday my husband and I did a track workout where we “sprinted” 100 m intervals. It was really fun! I had a blast.

Yesterday, I wasn’t nearly as sore as I expected. I was feeling pretty smug. :muscle:t3:This morning I did my long run of six miles and I realized I was more sore from Thursday than I thought. I only make 5.5 miles and actually had to walk the last mile. :weary: Oh well, live and learn.

(Karen) #30

Doms are a bitch aren’t they. Sometimes when you get them it actually helps to exercise to ease them off but when you think you got away with getting them that can be a whole different tale! When I started back to CrossFit after the lockdown every day was a new set of dogs in a different part of my body :laughing:

(Edith) #31

Yeah, I felt sore during the warmup mile, but I thought, “Oh, that will get worked out as I warm up.” By the time I got to mile four my body started saying, “WTF woman!” :joy:

(Joey) #32

@VirginiaEdie I appreciate your getting this thread underway!

As you’ll see shortly, it’s unclear how welcomed my post might be. But sharing is caring, so here I go …

I ran several miles almost every day of my adult life, all seasons, for over 25 years. If I didn’t run, I soon felt like crap.

I went through countless pairs of running shoes, Vibram 5-toes, outdoors in all seasons, and then indoors on my inclined treadmill at a nice clip. I added heavy-hand weights. You name it, I did it.

I never wanted to stop - not even in my 60s.

Each year my internist said: “okay - enough - you’re going to hurt yourself.” I never really did, although I felt sore on occasion. (OTOH, I did lecture him, since he injured himself regularly as a cyclist, breaking ribs, concussions, etc., whenever he smashed into things. But I digress…)

Then, about 2 years ago I stopped running. Cold turkey.

Because I studied deep into high-intensity interval sprint training (sample studies below).

Instead, I began using our elliptical trainer as follows: I do three (3) segments lasting 20 seconds each - at the highest aerobic intensity I can withstand - interspersed within a 10 minute total workout. The rest of the 10 minutes (besides those 3 x 20 second bursts = 60 seconds of sprinting at top capacity) are spent warming up/cooling down at a comfortable no-stress pace.

Initially, I was skeptical that 60 seconds of sprinting (no impact) could somehow equate to 45 minutes of running on the streets or on my treadmill. I’m now convinced that my skepticism was ill-founded.

To be clear, I read about this approach carefully before trying out this alternative cardio routine. I’ll share two studies for your perusal:

HIITvsTradExercise.PDF (734.6 KB)


HIIT-MetabolicResults.pdf (549.9 KB)

Don’t get me wrong - I’m not trying to talk anyone out of running! Heck, like I said, I was a happy runner for over 25 years with no regrets (and no known injuries).

But since switching over to 10 minutes, and only 3x weekly cardio with no body/joint impact, I’ve clearly maintained my aerobic conditioning while gaining about 5+ hours weekly in leisure time. (Although, admittedly, I devote several of my non-cardio days to HIIT slow-burn strength training - for which I never had time before making this cardio switch).

For me, the sprint-training approach of 10 minutes with 3 x 20" bursts is easier, faster, highly effective, and safer.

If nothing else, it’s something to consider, especially if you ever tire of your current running routine at some point down the road.

YMMV :vulcan_salute:

(Edith) #33

I saw this on a PBS/BBC program called The Truth About Exercise” with Dr. Michael Mosley. It was a very interesting program.

I like running. I like being outside. I like being able to say, “I ran ## miles this week.” I like to have goals to set. Running gives me that. My goal is to do 3 - 20 second High Intensity Intervals three times this week just wouldn’t be the same. :grinning:

But certainly, no offense taken. Who knows maybe in ten years I’ll feel differently.

(Joey) #34

One has to work hard to reach geezerhood. It doesn’t just happen without proper commitment. :roll_eyes:

(Edith) #35

So, I mentioned in. my initial post that I use a heart rate training method. Eighty percent of the workouts are supposed to be in heart rate zones 1 and 2. Then twenty percent of the workouts are at moderate to high intensity. I believe that one reason to stay in heart rate zones 1 & 2 is to keep your body in fat burning mode instead of sucking up the glycogen stores. I believe I have actually experienced the difference.

A few weeks ago, I ran six miles and for the most part ran the whole thing in zone 3 and maybe a fair bit in zone 4. I could not stop eating for the rest of the day. My body would not stop being hungry until I finally ate some carbs.

Yesterday, I ran eight miles and made sure I was in zone 2. I had no extra hunger during the day. In fact, my appetite may have even be a little less than usual.

I just found the difference between the two days interesting. And of course, it could have been coincidence. It’s only two runs on different days. Still…

(GINA ) #36

Interesting. How did you find your HR zones? Are you using MAF, or more traditional zones?

(Edith) #37

I did it a way suggested in “80/20 Running.” Say the “Pledge of Allegiance” while running. When it starts to move past easy to where you have to pant a little while saying it, that’s when you move from easy to moderate (zone 3), aka the lactate threshold.
70-80% of that number is zone 1,
81-89% is zone 2.
96-100% zone 3
102-105% zone 4
106% + zone 5

I found yesterday that where I have to switch from breathing completely through my nose to having to exhale through my mouth correlates pretty well with my transition from zone 2 to zone 3.

MAF didn’t work very well for me. The number was too low and I wasn’t getting any better.

(Butter Withaspoon) #38

I was about to reply that I use a simple method of mouth shut running to keep my intensity low, then I read that paragraph! Nice to know that my making stuff up method is good! :laughing:

Good news from me. I learned and implemented the McGill Big 3 and supplemental exercises. Basically I went over my program with these newer better ideas and have already felt some benefits. So so happy to walk without pain on every step. Did a big hill on Sunday and felt great after warming up.
I’ve experimented with a few 1 minute runs and its nearly ok. Onward and runward!

(GINA ) #39

Ah, nose breathing. I had always heard I should breathe through my nose when I run, but never could. I even tried running with those nose strips, still nope. One day I was seeing a sleep doctor, trying to get an answer for why a routine lab test found extra red blood cells, and she looked up my nose. She said, “Boy, it is crooked in here!” I asked if that is why I can’t breathe through my nose and exercise and she replied, “Oh yeah, no way.” I guess I feel better to have an explanation, but not so happy my nostrils are a mouse-maze.

(Edith) #40

When I did my long run on Sunday, I was able to nose breathe the entire run as long as I stayed in the correct heart rate zone. This morning I also stayed in the correct heart rate zone, but I could not do the nose breathing. :woman_shrugging:

I’m curious, any explanation as to why your nasal passages are crooked?