Rosedale and mtor - how do we decrease it?

[kib]

This is a video by Dr. Rosedale - originally presented in the thread about Sarah Ballantyne - in which he starts out by saying that health and life expectancy are directly related to the proportion of fat and sugar we burn in a lifetime. The basic point I got out of it is that decreasing protein intake decreases mtor, which in turn promotes longevity and protects against cancer. Anyone want to weigh in on this concept or contribute other science regarding decreasing mtor?

[akirby83]

There are some great STEM-Talk podcasts that dive deep into the whole mTOR question.

Here’s my real-world concerns about the mTOR fixation, since we all live in the real world and are not mice in lab experiments.

Is any increase of mTOR for ANY reason bad? Or is chronically high mTOR bad? Just like insulin… is it bad if insulin gets secreted after a meal? No, of course not. Not even a lot of insulin after a high carb meal. What IS bad is if insulin is chronically high due to broken mechanisms. In the same way, is bumping mTOR by eating protein and doing resistance training bad?

On the flip side, what are the downsides to restricting protein and avoiding resistance training? What is longevity without strength and vitality?

I would say, keep your mTOR pulsatile, just like your insulin.

[PaulL]

Not only that, but there are other researchers recommending higher protein intake, for what seem like good reasons to them. I’d like to get Dr. Rosedale and Dr. Bikman, for example, together in a room and have them hash out their differences. I suspect the protein question is probably more nuanced than we yet understand, and they have each grabbed hold of a different end of the question. It will be fascinating to see how our understanding develops in the years to come.

[Bellyman]

Paul, that would be an interesting conversation, for sure. (Rosedale & Bickman)

I’m sure context has some bearing. But I also found it interesting that Rosedale sounded like he’s very much a low carb / high fat person and that would definitely fit a keto context.

What I didn’t really get any kind of handle on was how an average Joe would quantify whether they are dealing with too much mTOR without an extreme of some kind. Or more to a point where most of us live, how would a person figure out what protein levels work well for themselves without overdoing as I’m pretty sure each of us is a bit different. I would hope there’s something a bit earlier in the cycle than, “Oops I ate too much protein 20 years ago, I’m gonna die today. Goodbye world.”

[Keto6468]

And what about ZC and societies that are ZC?

K

[kib]

One thing I’m also needing to remind myself occasionally is that longevity isn’t the only consideration in maximizing the experience of life. I get excited about a new concept and then have to take a step back and ask myself if, say, feeling cold and tired every day of my life, or feeling weak, or hating what i saw in the mirror every day, or feeling like my mind was never positive and strong, would be worth an extra 10 years. I’m pretty sure on my deathbed I’d say I wish I’d made the sacrifice, but is it true?

[PaulL]

Good point, Karen @Keto6468 , and I suspect that the answer for traditional societies would lie in the ratio of fat to protein, which I gather was high. As for modern ZC/carnivores, I suppose it depends on the level of one’s commitment to finding fatty muscle meats and to eating organ meats.

Remember that Rosedale’s concern is with longevity, which too much mToR activity seems to work against. Bikman is concerned with protein loss as we age, which might also have some effect on longevity as well.

Karen @kib, I share your concern with enjoying life. I’d rather live a shorter life eating bacon and eggs, than live a longer life without them. And thank God I have an excuse for not eating bran muffins anymore!

[atomicspacebunny]

Might work like this:

mTOR bio-circuitry:

IGF-1 et.al… (viz. EF, IF & AUTOPHAGY)===>[ON switch===>{mTOR}<===OFF switch]<===GLUCAGON

OFF switch temporary…

a/k/a: mTORC 1 & 2

[atomicspacebunny]

health and life expectancy are directly related to the proportion of fat and sugar we burn in a lifetime

Sugar & Fat consumption X (redox potential[6]) in relation to time = Life-Space[3][6]:

1. Chronological Age?

2. Biological Age = Telomerase Synthesis[1][2]?

3. Cardiorespiratory Synchronization[4][5] = Substratum Thought Attenuation (e.g. Meditation: restful alertness retention)

Footnotes:

1. What cells have telomerase?
   “… Unlike germ cells, in which telomere length is maintained by telomerase, most human somatic cells have lower levels of telomerase or are telomerase negative and experience telomere shortening with each cell division. Pluripotent stem cells are telomerase positive but do not maintain full telomere length. …” …More

2. What does telomerase synthesize?
   “…Telomerase. Some cells have the ability to reverse telomere shortening by expressing telomerase, an enzyme that extends the telomeres of chromosomes. Telomerase is an RNA-dependent DNA polymerase, meaning an enzyme that can make DNA using RNA as a template. …”…More

3. Suspension of decline (longevity variables)…

4. Resting Pulse Rate & Active Pulse Rate: “…The average resting heart rate ranges from 60 to 80 beats per minute, although well-trained athletes sometimes have a resting heart rate as low as 40 beats per minute. Metabolism refers to the body’s process of converting caloric intake into energy so the body can successfully carry out various physiological functions. …” …More

5. Cortisol, Stress (AF), Meditation & Cardiorespiratory Synchronization = Restful Alertness

6. How to Improve Your Redox Potential

7. How to live to 100: Secrets of the world’s healthiest village revealed: “…A doctor has revealed the secrets behind the “world’s healthiest village”– and there it all comes down to eating less sugar. Cardiologist Dr Aseem Malhotra – who describes himself as a former sugar addict – has spent years studying the reasons behind rocketing rates of heart disease and obesity in Britain. Key to his research were residents of the village of Pioppi, in southern Italy, where diabetes is unheard of and many live to over the age of 100. …”

8. Ketosis + Telomeres + Quantum Unified Field & Neurological Synchronicity = The Substratum

[kib]

As usual I have no idea what you’re trying to tell me, , but thank you for trying.

[atomicspacebunny]

decreasing protein intake decreases mtor, which in turn promotes longevity and protects against cancer.

I am thinking more along the lines that this has more to do with extended fasting EF and autophagy then long-term protein, fat, sugar intake or what you eat everyday?

in which he starts out by saying that health and life expectancy are directly related to the proportion of fat and sugar we burn in a lifetime

You would be replacing old damaged (initiating autophogens) cells so the “how much fat, protein and sugar you burn in a life-time determines longevity” hypothesis or theory would be based on the RESET via autophagy extending your life-space (age when you started a longevity-life-extending-type-process (protecting against cancer etc.) e.g. carbon C-60 (buckyball) or buckminsterfullerene olive oil)? IGF-1 turns on MTOR but would be turned off by glucagon from eating protein (a small portion) during and EF fast but only temporarily (my guess), this is a highly not well understood science or subject but fascinates me to no end! Lol

[ladylyssa]

I am going to watch this thread but I doubt I will understand much of it. I do love me some technobabble.

[LeCheffre]

MTOR is not a concern among the low carb community. Ketosis activates phosphoration of AMPK. AMPK is an upstream regulator of mTOR. When AMPK is high, mTOR is low. When you control your carbs or fast, you activate the AMPK. https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/lechefs-midlife-crisis-a-turnaround-project/32600/76

Rosedale’s anti-protein Crusade should probably be ignored until such a time as he reconciles studies of mTOR in the general population with the biology of ketonauts.

[Keto6468]

Less beef i understand. Chicken, fish eggs are helpful.

K

[kib]

Thanks for this. It’s so frustrating … so much of what is suggested for the SAD world simply doesn’t apply if you limit carbs, and I go down a whole lot of rabbit holes that I could just ignore. One less thing to worry about today!!

[LeCheffre]

I think this is the third or fourth time I’ve linked my research in response to Rosedale’s presentation. I’ve also linked it on twitter to folks who argue about mTOR and longevity. Rosedale is essentially making a vegetarian/vegan argument here. Protein bad and unnecessary. There’s no real healthy low protein population on the earth. At the end of the day, you can sum it all up with “It’s the fake foods, carbs, and processed oils.”

[kib]

At the end of the day, you can sum it all up with “It’s the fake foods, carbs, and processed oils.”

YES!!! I should tattoo this on my forehead or at least write it on my bathroom mirror. I totally believe this and yet I keep getting sucked in. Again, thanks.