Real KETO bike power

(ianrobo) #1

So this week I rode this

https://www.strava.com/activities/1032152927

The toughest one day event in Europe and arguably one of the toughest in the world.

What did I eat ?

Well for breakfast

  • 4 eggs
  • butter (40g)
  • pork scratching’s (110g)

During the ride 100g of Jelly babies, high 5 electrolyte supplement and 500ml of Coke

3 Vespa’s

the carbs here were for top up purposes and at the end I had lots of power, lots of energy, overtaking others etc. Do not let anyone say this is fad, it is now, it is the natural human state.

Endurance athletic performance via anaerobic glycolysis issue?
(ianrobo) #2

Keto power ha ha

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(John) #3

Very cool ride! I’m not one with the climbs yet though.

(KB Keto) #4

great. I’d love to had known how you would have done without the carb up during the ride, but thats a long ride. I’m doing 37mi (60km) tonight and thats long for me! ha

(Mike Glasbrener) #5

Very nice! That’s quite a bit of energy metabolized from fat! With practice do you bend the calculation for available energy from fat mass?

(ianrobo) #6

TBF the carbs when you look at it was very marginal !! On really long rides I really fancy a Coke but nowhere near bonking !! This was a 9000 cal ride and no way I could have so little carbs in my old state.

(ianrobo) #7

Not sure what you mean by that ?? But I change nothing from a 50km ride to this except I have the breakfast which has no carbs at all. People on rides after 30 mins are already having horrid gels !!!

(Mike Glasbrener) #8

There’s a study regarding the maximum rate of metabolizing fat for energy. But it didn’t look at trained athletes. I used to ride big rides quite often and would eat gels on a schedule according to my bike computer and workload. I am currently injured and will resume riding soon ( 2 months?) hopefully. So your riding so far with minimal food is quite amazing and rather liberating. I haven’t done anything other than 30-45 minute spins so far on a keto diet and am curious how to get to the point of mostly metabolizing fat during rides and you have nailed it to the extreme!

(ianrobo) #9

I guess the key is when you look at my stats I have combined this with MAF training to massively increase my aerobic base, which is the fat burning zone. As FASTER proved, this zone under Keto is actually wider than some say. Peter Defty had a very good podcast with Brad Kearns of Primal Endurance and well worth seeking out.

But basically by extending our aerobic zones into higher HR levels we burn fat at higher levels and not carbs. This then allows more carbs to be burnt when you want them. I would add to really maximise your zones, you need to do fasted rides of some distance to supercharge your body.

(Mike Glasbrener) #10

Thanks so much. This really intrigues me.

This one sounds like the one your talking about…

#90: Peter Defty Talks Optimized Fat Metabolism
Host Brad Kearns connects with Peter Defty, promoter of Optimized Fat Metabolism and Vespa energy food: Vespapower.com. Peter is a very early promoter of fat adapted training, and is a successful ultra distance athlete, with many marathons and a Western States 100-mile Endurance Run finish. Since the early 2000s, Peter has coached other athletes to optimize their fat metabolism, including some world-class performers like Zach Bitter, Nell Stephenson, and many others.

(ianrobo) #11

yep thats it, Brad is Keto but mainly follows Mark Sissons which is more LCHF & primal foods (close to Paleo). However he is now doing Keto and talks about adaption etc.

Part of Primal training is the MAF method where you train a lot at 180-age for Heart rate. Peter claims fat adapted pushes this up by 15-20 beats and shows the science. This collaborates FASTER (Peter was part of that study and provided the athletes for it) and they had a very good discussion on this.

(Mike Glasbrener) #12

Interesting. Since going Keto my threshold heart rate relatively low training to where I was 4 years ago is 5-10 beats faster. I’ve been trying to understand if it was diet related or training level related. Peter Attia also noted higher threshold heart rate with some minor loss of anaerobic performance utilizing a low carb diet (probably more paleo though).

(ianrobo) #13

Also there is stuff online where Steve Phinney discuss this as well …

the point is that the heart has to work a little harder to get the energy BUT because we do not do lactate acid on recovery spells, be it cycling, running etc the body recovers quicker.

On that ride my average HR was 148 for 13 hours in theory that is bloody high for the time but if you accept we have a higher one then that is actually Z2 …

(Ritchie Linden) #15

looks like great fun and congrats, 12+ hour is a guarenteed sore arse. What makes it the toughtest one datyer though?

#16

My experience cycling has been if you ride at intense anaerobic level you will need some carbs. I am not talking about a stroll around the park. I am talking about 30 + mile rides with lots of climbing chasing other cyclists that are faster than you. A lot of the experts will agree with this. Volek and Phinney included.
My peak power was definitely lower on keto. I have been on keto for about 4 months. Interested to here what OP has to say.

(ianrobo) #17

OK to answer the last few points.

Pure Keto will allow you to ride forever at a consistent Z2 Power and HR, no question of that. However this featured 6 major climbs and at times over 15% and you have to go into hour carb burning zones. I hardly ‘carbed’ up though, for tea I had fatty lamb breast with cream after. All I had during 13hrs of constant exercise was a pack of Jelly babies, about 100g of carbs, in other words just a potato. Could I have gone without them probably but during 13 hrs you need something and will not cause a problem.

95% of this ride was done on fat.

Why one of the toughest ? Well distance and as much climbing in all but one I can think of - Tour of Mont Blanc.

#18

Regarding your original post can you get into your use of Vespa? What benefit does it have and would it be advantages on shorter rides?

(ianrobo) #19

oh shorter rides none at all. It is too expensive for that, it is for loner rides, I would say 4 hours plus where you may need to get fat metabolism, quicker …

Does it work as described or a placebo effect ?

Not sure but when I ride a long one without it recovery seems to be longer

(Ritchie Linden) #20

Forgive my ignorance but what is this vespa?

That tour du mont blanc looks great and in my back yard too… maybe next year, but for the serious challenges you should look into the alpenbrevet.

(ianrobo) #21

Sure, Vespa is a product Peter Defty picked up from Japan, it helps to speed up fat metabolism (well that’s the claim) and this produce energy at a lower cost. Remember Carbs are quick access energy and can be accessed easier than fat.

Peter works with numerous athletes using it (perfectly legal) and a name you may heard of - Romain Bardet. Peter also has close links to Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek and it was his athletes they used for the faster study.

I have seen the Alpenbrevet but for me the MArmotte has the romanticism of the classic TDF climbs and finishing on D’Huez !