Read a scary article

#16

Here’s one of them :confused: https://www.thepaleomom.com/adverse-reactions-to-ketogenic-diets-caution-advised/

#17

This article is drawing conclusions on five papers based on children with epilepsy, being given other drugs while on keto diet and a host of other medical complications and variables not associated to keto.

(Kathy L) #18

I think jimmy Moore (not sure what podcast tho) debunked this article a while ago… I’ll see if I can find their comments too.

(Kathy L) #19

Jimmy Moore and the doc responded to all the points in her article in podcast # 23:
http://ketotalk.com/2016/06/23-responding-to-the-paleo-mom-dr-sarah-ballantynes-claims-against-the-ketogenic-diet/
KEY QUOTE:(from KetoTalk podcast website): “This just seems really odd to me why a prominent voice in the Paleo community would promote something like this. I wonder if they did studies of people who were sick and had them go on Paleo and they had adverse reactions if she would like it if we extrapolated all the things that happened to those patients to the general Paleo population. I’m disappointed to be honest that this kind of information is getting out there and people believe it.” — Jimmy Moore

(Glenn Graham) #20

There are so many crazy articles out there, here is a new article from the Huffington Post(South Africa). The quoted research is hyper-selective, but she uses it for some crazy justifications.
LIKE
“A LCHF diet increases susceptibility to depression and mood swings.” WHY?
“A meal like pasta or a snack of graham crackers will allow the brain to make serotonin, but eating chicken and potatoes or snacking on beef jerky will prevent serotonin from being made.” - Judith Wurtman 2004 Old bogus research.

I feel so sorry for Tim Noakes. He has a big battle down there in South Africa.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/asunta-simoloka/here-are-the-downsides-to-a-lchf-diet-that-you-have-to-consider/

(Nick) #21

These scaremongering articles are often just the effluence of corruption and bribery. See the piece I linked to here:

(Crow T. Robot) #22

Good post, Nick. These tactics are standard operating procedure and have been for a long time. Paying bloggers and nutrition writers to mention their products in a positive light is quite common. I remember the first time I heard about this years ago: the Florida orange juice industry group was paying a health journalist $20k a year just to occasionally mention orange juice in the context of helping improve immunity from colds, even though there’s no scientific basis for the claim. She probably thought it was fine because she likely believed it anyway.

(Susan Hall) #23

:laughing:

(Jane Reed) #24

No offense to the OP, but it drives me nuts to read that someone is “scared” by some report. We weren’t scared when we ate a quart of ice cream or 3 pieces of pie or a pound of candy or a giant mound of macaroni and cheese. How come?

Let’s not get carried away when reports like this come out. Instead, ask for feedback from our brainier forum members. Calling stuff scary just scares newbies (no pun intended).

#25

Agree, except this was posted by someone new to Keto and, as most of us have experienced when you first come across articles like this it is scary if you’re still finding your way with Keto.

(Jane Reed) #26

Disagree, as even OP was never scared enough to seek advice when confronted with a magazine article that said obesity was a precursor to heart disease or something similar. We who have been overweight all our lives read this kind of stuff constantly.

People new to keto may be ignorant of the science, as I was, but they aren’t ninnies. We shouldn’t treat them that way and I think we do them a disservice if we pat their little heads and say " there, there".

Instead, I think we should encourage them to confront the stuff they read with skepticism and a sense of curiosity needing to be satisfied, and not with fear. Why else do we have a forum section called Show Me The Science?

We are all scientists, newby or not, who are on a journey to learn what is real about this world of nutrition. We don’t do it by fostering fear using words like scary. There is nothing scary about pseudo science and misinformation. It’s just a hurdle to be jumped. Thank goodness we gave the members in this forum who help us all do that.

(Nick) #27

Hear hear! People need to be taught critical thinking and, frankly, if it takes a small amount of credulishaming to kick-start the journey, so be it :slight_smile:

#28

I wasn’t aware that anyone was doing that here. I’ve found most people to be respectful, supportive, reflective and considered when they opine.

Everyone learns in their own way and at their own pace. Curiosity and fear are not always mutually exclusive. Some are happy to research on their own and self educate, others don’t even know where to start and many others fall somewhere along the spectrum between. After spending only a short amount of time here newcomers will become aware of the healthy scepticism found and encouraged on this site.

Please don’t mistake patience for condescension. Not everyone responds well to a knock upside the head with a 2 by 4. I do, however, accept your point. I think, for the most part, that all of us here are working towards the same outcome, it’s just that our methods in delivering the message may differ…and surely that’s a good thing.

(Nick) #29

I have a confession: I do look down on people who have made it to adulthood who react like incredulous toddlers to propaganda and shallow banalities like in the original article, especially adults who have grown up in the information age, where the data are out there for any to forage, and who should thus not expect to be spoon-fed the opinions they “should” have directly into their brains. I am prepared to admit that this “judginess” might be a moral failing of mine, but it would be dishonest to deny it.

#30

Hardly a moral failing…your honesty in itself belies such a notion. We have many members on this Forum (and beyond) who come from a variety of backgrounds - nationalities, cultures, languages, personality types, education, vocation, communication styles, together with a vast array of other influences that have helped mould us into the people we are today. I’m not suggesting for a moment that people keep their opinions to themselves; far from it, as it makes for great discussion and healthy debate. I do hope though that people (myself included) can keep an open mind and be aware of their biases and try to avoid projecting their own experiences and/or assumptions without first having paused to consider and acknowledge that others may have come to the issue from a different perspective.

(Karen Parrott) #31

I attended the Paleofx 2015 lecture where The Paleo Mom prenented all the “dangers” of low carb based on every bad outcome on every paper she could find at the time. Jimmy Moore was there, too.

Most of the scientific papers presented with bad outcomes were from patients with complex medical histories. I don’t think that point was brought forward enough.

IMO-Some of the Paleo Mom’s concerns were around low carb & AIP. That was also not stated well enough either. All IMO and my impressions. Others at the conference may have different take sways.

Keto was in it’s infancy in April 2015 in mainstream Paleo.

Lots of discussions afterwards. Lots of long time clinical folks who treated patients every day disagreed with some of the statements, based on their clinical experience and other papers.

I was wishing I had attended a more interesting cooking demo on another stage, but it was the hot topic at the time. Interesting time and place.

Here’s my take away, try it, if it works, keep it , if it doesn’t, then take the good parts of the n=1 with you.

And attend those cooking demonstrations!!!

There will always be papers to pit against papers, poor patient outcomes. That’s life. It’s the risks we take in trying to feel better.

(Nick) #32

PaleoMom’s slew of scaremongering and outright misinformation was unforgivable. She clearly wanted to carve a particular business-niche for herself, damn the consequence to people - particular women - who could otherwise benefit from the very treatment she so pseudo-scientifically demonised.

Shame on her and her “keto kills” poster!

(Nick) #33

By the way, if you think I exaggerate the enormity of her scare-mongering, see the bottom right of her deplorable poster:

Keto-Infographic.jpg468×1024 145 KB

(Keto in Katy) #34

FYI — you may need to click the image above to see all the way to the bottom right. Oh my.

Is there a diet where death is not classified as an eventual outcome? LOL. :grimacing:

(Arlene) #35

My thoughts exactly. No one, as in none of us can possibly see the world from another’s perspective. We are all individuals. Live with it. :slight_smile: