Quick / Fast / Rapid weight changes -- What is going on?

#1

Looking at @ron-coleman 's extended fast, he has had several days where there were pounds of weight change.

Some days it was pounds loss and when be broke the fast there were days of pounds back on. Now it’s pounds off.

I’ve been dabbling in low carb eating, not keto just reducing the carbs as much as possible. And I’ve also seen days where the delta is several pounds.

OK, in the carb days, the story was glycogen, aka a glucose molecule bound with 6 water molecule. It was alleged that a couple pounds plus or minus was mostly water. OK, 4 pounds is about a half a gallon, it doesn’t seem crazy. The body couldn’t change in pounds of fat over a day, not at 3,500 calories per pound. Loosing 2 pounds would burn your up. Gaining 2 pounds would require a huge amount of food intake.

But if you’re keto then where is that delta coming from? If you’re not eating a lot of carbs, then the glycogen should be mostly made by the liver from proteins via glucogenosis. Wouldn’t the liver be more controlled in it’s production of glycogen? Meaning that the water change would be much more stable? Or would protein consumption add confusion? i.e. Excess protein getting converted to glucose whether you need it or not and the end result being large glycogen changes, aka several pounds of weight delta.

What science have people seen regarding this?

(G. Andrew Duthie) #2

My thought is that some of this may be changes in hydration levels, and may be a matter of how much sodium you have (or haven’t) consumed, and the resultant retention (or release) of fluids. There also may be a portion of the weight that is related to how much food is “in transit” at the moment. The latter would obviously be less of a factor when fasting, but when doing feast/fast cycling, IF, or just keto eating, it probably plays a role in day-to-day variation.

(John) #3

I would expect to see more fluctuations due to water as well. Gluconeogenesis makes glucose from ketones, ketones spike high on fasts so if it is supply driven then that makes sense. I also think we become a lot more sensitive to carbs as well. I have had a couple of planned higher carb meals and see massive weight shifts. I was out with the wife and had a full heavy beer, beer cheese and a couple potato chips. This was not a ton of food, but I was up 8 pounds the next day, it took 4 days to drop to my normal weight. Last week I ate 50 carbs worth of pizza over my normal 10-20 carbs, 6 pounds up and back to normal 4 days later. My wife goes up a little eating the same carbs, I go up a lot.

#4

@jmbundy This is interesting:

up 8 pounds the next day

That’s a gallon of water. Is that possible? Really good beer ? : )

Various sources on the net imply that 3 or 4 water molecules for each of glucose. 8 pounds or water and glucose would be an enormous amount of glucose, wouldn’t it?

#5

Upon refeeding, after a very long fast, there is the physical reloading of intestines with food, rebuilding/repair of tissue that had gone autophagy, and withholding some water (hydration). While these three things are going in, the body is still keto and burning fat. But, if the three things outweigh the fat burn, then you see a delta weight gain,

(John) #6

If glucose were the only part of this, yes. I think if you find the most complex model for the body you can find, it is probably not 100th of what it actually is.

Fasting often flushes sodium from the body, this can cause quite large fluctuations in weight, as can changes in potassium levels.

If metabolism is low, or shifted towards burning fatty acids for fuel instead of carbohydrates (eg in low-carb diets) then there will be inadequate carbon dioxide produced and it’s more likely that the cell will hold onto water, calcium and estrogen. In a low metabolic state (hypothyroidism) carbon dioxide production is deficient and salt is excessively excreted, both contributing to the retention of water (and hypo-osmotic body fluids) and generally “puffiness” that many people complain of.

I personally thing that those of us that are more insulin resistant have a higher inflammatory response to carbs, which is why we get bloated and hang on to weight even more than the raw numbers imply.

(John) #7

I think it was partially the beer, but just retaining everything I drank that day. I am a chronic weigher, on a normal night I drop 3 pounds from bed until waking, this is weighing after my nightly bucket of water and multiple late-night trips to get rid of it. When I have a few too many or something more carby like that I don’t lose much of what I put in. I expect their to be a bit, but 8 pounds surprised me too.

(I am a Dog (Dog's eat until they burst!)) #8

My take on this, especially after my 46-day fast, was that my body had cleared of stuff during those six weeks and not only fat. Dr. Jason Fung likes to say that we lose about 1/2 pound a day in fat when fasting so where does all that other weight loss come from?

I think that water is a big part of it but, as I said, there is a lot of other waste from autophagy and other cleansing processes.

During my refeeding I knew I was not regaining fat but a lot of rehydration. When I started the fast/feast cycling my body had the chance to again burn some fat while keeping the water at normal levels.

Just my $.02!

(James storie) #9

I wonder how much of it has to do with rebuilding protein that is used during fasting. The old and worn out, or not needed. Like loose skin. Thoughts?