Questions before starting


(Lucas Maltha) #1

Hello,

I am Lucas, 19yo male, and I am interested in starting a ketogenic diet (mainly for health benefits, but weight loss is nice. 85kg and 1m81 long).

But I really want to make sure I do it right from the start, all or nothing. So I hope some people with experience could help me out. :slight_smile:

Here are my questions:
-What are the amounts of certain nutrients I am supposed to take in daily? I am new to dieting so I don’t really know what values I need for my weight class or anything.
-Am I supposed to ease into this diet or is it better to completely go for it from one day to another?
-What are some supplements I should take, and how often should I take them?
-Is there a certain page of site that can help met with basics (from the do’s and don’ts to tips and tricks) that I should go to, since I don’t know anyone personally who can help me?

Thanks a lot for the help!


#2

Start here:


(Jennibc) #3

Great! But first, abandon that ‘all or nothing’ frame of mind because whenever we try changing our habits there are going to be backslides. I am not saying you should be lax and not give it your best effort, but all or nothing thinking tends to undermine people’s goals. Here’s a great article about this distorted way of thinking. Take it from an old timer, abandoning an all or nothing mental habit will bring big rewards. http://cogbtherapy.com/cbt-blog/cognitive-distortions-all-or-nothing-thinking


(Marianne) #4

Welcome!


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

The point of a ketogenic diet is to keep blood levels of insulin and glucose as low as possible for as much of the time as possible. The reason is that high levels of each damage the body. Insulin is also the body’s primary fat storage hormone, which if you are overweight or obese, is another reason to keep your insulin level as low as you can.

The principal way to keep insulin low is to eat as little carbohydrate as possible, since carbohydrates are nothing more than chains of glucose molecules, and glucose has a major effect on insulin secretion. It is especially important to avoid sucrose (table sugar) and high-fructose corn syrup, because sucrose is a glucose molecule bonded to a fructose molecue. The glucose molecule will cause your insulin to rise, and too much fructose causes the same kind of damage to your liver that too much alcohol causes.

You can safely eat some carbohydrate, but we recommend no more than 20 g/day. This means sticking to leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables, such as broccoli and cauliflower, because they contain a lot of water and fiber, and not so much digestible carbohydrate. Certain high-fiber fruits, such as strawberries and blueberries, are safe in low quantity. Avocado is also a good fruit to eat on a ketogenic diet, because it contains very little sugar and is a good source of healthy fat.

Basically, your diet should consist mostly of protein and fat, and you should eat enough to satisfy your hunger. We recommend an amount of protein somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.0-2.0 grams a day per kilogram of lean body mass, but if you are still in your growth spurt, that limit does not apply to you. (It’s for adults who have finished growing up and now grow only sideways, lol!) Protein does stimulate insulin secretion, but that’s a good thing, because we do need small level of it in our blood in order to live (Type I diabetics, whose bodies can’t make insulin at all, used to starve to death before insulin was discovered). When we eat very little or no carbohydrate, the insulinogenic effect of protein is enough for survival and not worth worrying about otherwise. Remember that even meat is only about 25% protein, so if you want to eat 100 grams of protein, that would come to about a pound of meat.

Fat is a safe source of calories, because it’s effect on insulin secretion is almost non-existent. You will read many posts here encouraging people to eat more fat. But you should not be stuffing yourself to the gills with fat, you should simply eat enough protein and fat to assuage your hunger, and not eat again until you feel hungry again. If you are eating enough food, you will find yourself going several hours between meals. If you let hunger and satiety be your guide, your body will happily tell you when it needs food and when it doesn’t. This is a lot easier than calculating caloric intake and figuring quantities to eat.


#6

As you are rather young, and not too fat, you might not need to go completely keto in order to ensure a healthy metabolism for life. My own daughter is a teenager, and lost quite a bit of unnecessary fat just by eating a less restrictive lchf diet. This also has had great effects on her moods and stamina in school.

The simplest advice is to eat whatever meat and seafood that you like, and above-ground vegetables and salad. Root vegetables and beans can be enjoyed in smaller quantities if you do not need a strict keto diet. Meals should always be prepared with butter, coconut oil or virgin olive oil. Cheese, nuts and seeds are great snacks, as is small amounts of dark chocolate. (A handful of) berries can be a good dessert, or make a nice smoothie with avocado and unsweetened almond milk. This is a good starting point, calculating macros can come later.

I don’t think all or nothing is a good mindset. Eating whole foods and limiting blood sugar is what’s important. That allows for a thin slice of cake on someone else’s birthday, and a keto cake on your own.

Easing into the diet is what I did. Cut grains, fruits and sugar first, then went on to eating only keto approved vegetables. Less stress on my system, is what I believe. Actually, after only a week on easy lchf, you should be able to taste the extreme sweetness of cooked carrots, and that on its own was reason enough for me to view them as a candy rather than food. Trust that your body knows what’s good for you, and only calculate macros after settling into a good non-sweet way of eating.

Beware of the scale too. Look up a good waist to height ratio, and aim for that instead. You might be lucky enough to gain muscle as you lose fat, and weight doesn’t change at all when that happens.


#7

Great suggestions from everyone, good luck on your journey. I tend to be a all or nothing person too, go big or go home, it’s always worked for me. Everyone’s different though, just don’t give up or be discouraged in your journey.


#8

Hello everyone
I have been going keto the best way I can for the last week. I was shocked that the scale said 261 rather than 270 two days ago. The pitting edema was down so it must be mostly water. Still impressive though.
I am 69 and near retirement, but have monster energy problems and what is the term “hangry?”. Some dr. at least 10 years ago said I was prediabetic but didn’t take it any farther and I switched drs.
Anyway there is more clarity and energy now, for that I am pumped. I would like to know approximately what 230 grams of protein looks like, if it is spread out over 3 meals, in the form of eggs (breakfast), chicken or fish (lunch), and chicken fish or meat (dinner). Is this a reasonable request? (ball park)
I haven’t hit ketosis yet, the urine strips say trace, so I may be eating too much. Also I had been taking Lipitor, so that may be impacting fat metabolism?
It is very cool to see admins and keto dudes giving respnses here, so I am hopeful to get on track.


#9

If you want easy maths, you could start with this approximation: 25 g protein = 4 eggs, 100 g lean meat, 100 g chicken, 100 g pollock, 85 g tuna, 125 g salmon…

You should calculate your protein need from a healthy weight perspective. 1-2 g protein / kg at healthy weight, depending on activity level. If sedentary, have less, if working out, have more. Too much protein can keep you out of ketosis.


#10

Hi and welcome,

I’m naturally an all or nothing guy, so I launched straight into keto without even knowing exactly what to eat. I just had steak first day and maybe an egg - nothing else! Then I researched food items like crazy, images of what’s allowed at dietdoctor.com were good.

The key is to avoid - sugar, bread, rice, pasta - because they blow your insulin through the roof then it pretty well doesn’t matter what you eat after that, you won’t be burning fat.

So swap those out and replace them with vegetables or a decent salad. You end up with steak, chicken or fish with veggies. Nothing strange at all. We aren’t afraid of some butter or olive oil.

Just get plenty of water. Make sure of that! And also make sure you have plenty of salt. They are important, because on keto your kidneys are getting rid of sodium… must resupply salt!

For breakfast - bacon, eggs and cheese. Again nothing weird.

Of course you can have a lot of variety but for starters that’s what I did.

At first it’s a good idea to use a decent food app, like cronometer, ignore the “macros” “ratios” and all that - just count the carbs.

(As for nutrients, protein is the most important, plenty of that in meat and it also has tons of other micronutrients, minerals and vitamins. Eggs are a super food! Avocado’s are great too).

Stick around here, that helps keep the flame burning. Plenty of helpful people, together we’ve literally lost tons of weight … keto really does work and it can be very easy.


#11

You have a lot of good questions. It takes some research to understand this way of eating, but it isn’t difficult and once you have the right information, you will be very successful, especially if you are “all in”. So here is my suggestion. Go to the experts in the field. Here are my suggestions. They all have videos on YouTube. Dr. Berg, Dr. Ken Berry, Dr. Fung. They have good advice. Google Keto Foods and put it up on your refrigerator. Give away all the other food that is not Keto approved. Download a macro calculator. I use “Stupid Simple” which is an app you can put on your phone. Macros=fat,protein and carbs is the way you will judge your diet success. At the beginning of your Keto journey you will eat 75% Healthy fats, 20% Protein and 5%keto approved carbohydrates. Good luck. Caution: add electrolytes to your daily routine because you will avoid Keto flu by doing so.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

That’s a lot of protein. We recommend something in the neighborhood of 1.0-1.5 grams per kilo of lean body mass a day. To get 230 grams of protein, you’d have to eat nearly a kilo of steak, so yes, spread it out over more than one meal.

Prof. Bikman says that his research is indicating that this is not a concern on a low-carb/keto diet. In the absence of carbohydrate, the insulin/glucagon ratio stays low, and ketogenesis is not inhibited.


#13

This is a very good point, thanks for the reminder. I seem to have read anecdotes of high protein intake somewhat inhibiting the transition into ketosis, though. So I don’t think of it as a problem when already in ketosis, but lowering it initially might possibly help. I’d personally bet on an anecdotal possibility as long as it isn’t harmful. At least with 230 g protein a day, that makes so many calories that it isn’t unthinkable that the body could take a dip into starvation mode before slowly starting ketosis. If you know any studies on this, I’d love to read them. Nothing is more fun than to be proven wrong in my (sometimes unfounded) assumptions.


(Christins) #14

The only way I knew we could be successful was to start with a full pantry purge. All carbs thrown out, composted, or donated. If we were gonna cheat, we’d have to go out and buy it which is a great deterrent. That being said we calculated our carbs to stay under 25/day, weighed and measured our proteins at first to get a feeling for portion size and macros but didn’t worry about the amount of fats leaving that for when we were in ketosis and fat adapted. We did supplement our electrolytes for the first month and the keto flu was hell! But what happened is our bodies naturally adjusted, snacking deceased on its own and we just ate less. Combined my husband and I have lost over 150 lbs and our blood panels look great and his diabetes (previously insulin dependent) is completely reversed. I still occasionally go back to counting every carb when it creeps up but for us keto is just our way of eating now. Good luck.


#15

Thanks for responding. I need to measure my proteins- something that I haven’t been doing, as my wife has been doing the cooking. Portion size and love sometimes get mixed up.

PaulL said that 230 grams of protein would equal a kilo- 1000 grams of steak. That is confusing. How much fat in grams is there in the steak? How would I know that?

I have signed up to an app “Carb Manager” that has a keto calculator. They advise subscribers to use a digital scale- is that something you recommend?


#16

Approximately 453 grams equals a pound so that should help you figure things out. 16 ounces in a pound.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

The way you would know that is to go to the U.S. Department of Agriculture Food Composition Database

Here are the results for three cuts of steak:

Top sirloin beef steak, raw

Nutrient Unit Value per kg
Water g 733.1
Energy kcal 1270
Protein g 222.7
Total lipid (fat) g 35.4
Carbohydrate, by difference g 0
Fiber, total dietary g 0
Sugars, total g 0

Ribeye beef cap steak, boneless, raw

Nutrient Unit Value per kg
Water g 673.1
Energy kcal 1800
Protein g 197
Total lipid (fat) g 106
Carbohydrate, by difference g 15.1
Fiber, total dietary g 0
Sugars, total g 0

Beef flank steak, raw

Nutrient Unit Value per kg
Water g 694.6
Energy kcal 1650
Protein g 212.2
Total lipid (fat) g 82.9
Carbohydrate, by difference g 0
Fiber, total dietary g 0
Sugars, total g 0