Protein ratios explained - beautifully explained!

(Deb) #21

And this is an example of how I was figuring it for a friend:
LBM 141 X .08 = 113 gms or 56 oz protein per day ( very active person)

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #22

I only want to comment on this because it doesn’t seem very scientific.

First, there are plenty of studies showing ketogenic dieters losing fat and gaining muscle mass at the same time, so the author is making a mistake about anabolism and catabolism, and a commonly repeated one. I’m sure that’s what he was taught, but it doesn’t seem to have borne out.

On the other hand, I’m not sure it has any bearing on the protein calculations. But then again, he gives no explanation of where they are derived from either.

My advice on the protein question is:

  1. Experimentally find

S: the amount of protein you need to eat to Satisfy your appetite,
K: the amount that gets you into the minimum acceptable level of Ketosis for your particular goals

  1. Calculate
    M: 1.2 g/kg ideal weight (1.4 for men).
    This is a theoretical minimum, see http://www.ketotic.org/2014/01/how-much-protein-is-enough.html for rationale.

Let m be the minimum of S and K.

If m > = M, then either you are reaching ketosis while getting enough protein or you don’t care about ketosis. All set.

If m < M then either you are having trouble reaching your desired level of ketosis while eating enough protein, you have unusually low protein needs, or your hunger is being masked or dysregulated.

Either keep the protein low and watch for signs of malnutrition (e.g. fatigue, amenorrhoea, cold intolerance, feeling crappy), or cut back on carbs and try again. (Less carbs means more protein tolerance.)

(Deb) #23

Whatever works for you is great. Some need/ want to be completely scientific about it. I use the formulas I research, which have changed as my body has changed, and may change again if or when I feel they need to. That’s the cool thing about this: its like an ongoing, life long experiment.

One thing I DID find today (actually on that same forum…and it was a woman who wrote that post by the way) was this:

“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” Charles Darwin

(Carpe salata!) #24

“And this is an example of how I was figuring it for a friend:
LBM 141 X .08 = 113 gms or 56 oz protein per day ( very active person)”

Looks like pounds. For kg, divide by 2.2 to get 64
Use multiplier o.8 rather than .08 which = 51g of protein
To convert to oz, divide by 28 giving 1.8oz protein per day

That’s around 12oz of 70/30 mince beef which is 14% protein.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #26

I removed my comment, because I think I misunderstood you. Carry on. :slight_smile:

#27

I’m not a scientist, and according to my Ketostix I’m as high as I can go. I count my carbs (never more than 10), my protein and fat, but I also count them as calories at the end of the day, because no matter what anyone says, if you don’t have a deficit of calories, you will not lose weight. To maintain my current weight I need roughly 1800 calories a day, a deficit of 500 will give me a pound weight loss per week, but I prefer a deficit of 700 and I work my protein and fat around that. I feel great, never had more energy and I have lost 30lb in 50 days

(Becky) #28

Ohhhhhhh, now that is an example I LIKE! 15 oz of short ribs…yum!

(Zu) #29

Body recomposition, in those who were very overweight - CAN sometimes loose fat and gain muscle simultaneously… But it’s mainly due to nube gains that a builder will never experience ever again in their athletic career. It’s a sudden shock for the body (which has never experienced calorie deficit nor anabolic growth) so it can do them simultaneously if you are quite unfit previously and never had previously experienced such metabolic manipulations… If you are a seasoned Athlete it is rare and hard to manipulate ones body into such a metabolic situation again as its already experienced that and has time to adapt… Its the NUBE GAINS PHENOMENA … Some claim to do it on super clean diets and “clean carbs” loling my brains out at that one!

But there are so many real life circumstances where this happens regularly

(Zu) #30

My thoughts on this would be rather with the latter, but to focus on reaching satiety through fat calories - not protein calories That way you remain in ketosis, and you are teaching your body what your preferred fuel is and are thus feeding it so.

There are HUGE builders who have massive muscle mass, very high LBM:BF% ratios who are achieving massive gains on .8g per LBM kg so for the average joe schmoe like me who is somewhat sedentary and sporadically very active that kind of protein is quite sufficient. I doubt we actually NEED more than that physiologically - but some may need it psychologically. Like i said that issue can neatly be addressed with fat.

(Deb) #31

That’s what I’m talking about! You go!

#32

@amber. Based on your formula my recommended grams per day of protein is 62, if I’m eating carbs. Is there a different formula for zero carb, which is my woe? I find I’m satiated on about 62 gr, but I also want to make sure I’m getting enough for my activity level (lightly active).

(Solomom A) #34

Fantastic, what calorie deficit gave you 30lbs in 50 days?

#35

Clearly some of that is water loss, but I also watch this guy a lot, because of you want to burn fat, you shouldn’t be eating too much fat. I want to burn my fat. I have worked out that I need for me 66g of protein, but Online calculators are insisting I need 82g of fat. No I don’t! I’m working at 78g, or lower, and keeping carbs at 10, or below. As I said, I watch this guy, he makes the most sense for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV3tanQHibQ

#36

Sorry error. Online calcs were telling me I needed 96g of fat

(Deb) #37

Your plan sounds almost exactly like mine. And I don’t have too much to lose to get to (new) go, but I’ve lost just a little slower: 22 lbs in about 3 months.

#38

I’m even substituting some protein for fiber now. I was eating portions of 4 ounces before, and now I’m down to 2 ounces with a tablespoon of ground flax. I may need to buy shares in the company!

(Deb) #39

Lol! Funny! It’s amazing how making a small change like that can make such a difference in results.

#40

Yes it is, and the fiber makes me fuller longer!

#41

its interesting to me, to see how the 'fear the fat" mentality is slowly seeping back into LCHF/Keto diets, coinciding with the fear of “too little protein” creeps up as well

almost no one (except maybe vegans) in the western world is eating too little protein. maybe poor sources, but not too little.

the CICO mentality is coming back, mainly due to ketogains and Ted Naiman, and to a lesser extent the ZC celebs, and to a lesser degree even Agostino.

we are to believe that hormones matter, except when you need to lose weight then you better count those fat calories! (or else you won’t lose the fat on your body). this is almost NO ONEs personal experience. There is no such thing as a stall in the long term, its just people get frustrated when they lose 80 pounds in 6 months, then its “stalled”.

stalls are more likely due to micromanaging your weight by looking at the scale too often. throw it away.

Fat doesn’t make you fat. It is very hard to over eat fat, the satiety comes soon, and digestive distress follows if you don’t listen to your body.

Protein is not satiating. I best most of us could easily eat 3 to 4 chicken breasts, try to eat 2 large avocados.

lack of protein is a hunger driver for sure, but its not satiating in the traditional sense. if it was you could throw back whey powder all day long and be the thinnest person on the block.

#42

I’m not against fat, I’m trying to get to how I want to eat long term. I had difficulty over-eating on protein, so I have substituted with flax. Now I am at the correct amount of protein without feeling hungry and the correct amount of fat while still maintaining a deficit in calories. I couldn’t eat that amount of Chicken, but I could easily eat 5 Avocados, one after the other!