Protein Raising Glucose


(Erin Macfarland ) #21

No one said you had to give up wine @barefootbob :wink:


(Sharon A Peters) #22

OK., but … starting from the point that each metabolism is a bit different that any other, AND the fact that I don’t do protein ‘bumps’ - that is, what goes in is >90% scratch-prepared and off the plate, not from the can, jar, or package - what is the current thought on the consumption of protein in the form of actual flesh? I know enough to check the meter, but what says research on eating the real deal? Thanks!


(Chris) #23

Asking to stop talking about protein in a vacuum and speak about it in the context of real food is a source of aggravation around here (as evidenced by the responses in this thread).


(VLC.MD) #24

Protein has limited impact on glucose but can raise insulin 1/2 as much as carbs. Protein is essential and is much better than carbs. Actual meat (fat + protein) is much better than Pure protein sources. I dont think protein is much to worry about in the majority of people. The assertion in the OP isn’t scientific.

After you learn to keep carbs under 20g a day, then next priority is to still keep your eye on the carbs. And after that, it is to keep your eye on the carbs ! After than might be how to figure out what amount of protein is good for you. After that might be … lowering excessive fat intake if that is what you are doing.

But dont lose focus. Keep your eye on the carbs.


(Chris) #25

This should be easy since we’re discussing this specifically in the zero carb subforum.


(VLC.MD) #26

Zerocarbers can likely eat as much protein as they want. any glucose or insulin rise in a zerocarber isn’t likely too important.
Or more accurately, the chances that excess protein hampers your weight loss success in a zerocarbers is dramatically less than typical ketosis levels of carbs (20g to 40g).


(Sharon A Peters) #27

Thx. I keep carbs under 15g net/day; my big celebrations and ‘cheats’ are when I consume 20g net/day. I am running protein at about .65/lb-lbm, and though the macro set for fat seems a bit generous - 91g, and the goal is health and weight loss - I try to come in at 70-80g/day. Energy’s good, all other things are good (or seem to be). I guess I am not sure - and not certain that anyone else is, either - what constitutes excess protein for me. Especially since it remains silent on the BG monitor, but bounces insulin. How to track? Quarterly or bi-annual A1C? Aaaarrrgh!!

Appreciate the feedback …


(Sharon A Peters) #28

How do you know that you have no insulin reaction? How are you measuring/tracking your insulin? Especially if protein doesn’t bounce BG.


(VLC.MD) #29

You can’t really assess insulin response outside of a lab. Your best estimate is blood glucose.


(Sharon A Peters) #30

Exactly what I thought … so if excess protein doesn’t bump BG, but does bump insulin, then it doesn’t make sense that one would know just what the devil is going on … ?


(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #31

We know because people in a lab have been checking. You can’t figure out exactly what’s going on with you specifically, but people do by and large function the same.


#32

Thank you for the link. It explains why I thrive when I eat large amounts of meat.


(Erin Macfarland ) #33

Yes!! I am really curious though about the claims that eating “high” amounts of protein activates mTOR to the extent that it can lead to cancer or even metabolic syndrome. Dr Rosedale is the biggest advocate for lowering protein, because he has all this research demonstrating the supposed harm of eating more than the bare minimum amount of protein . But I have heard conflicting ideas about this, especially for those eating ZC since Rosedale is basing his conclusions on a keto diet that includes plants. Also, it’s my understanding that there’s several substances including Metformin, green tea extract, turmeric and resvertrol that block mTOR. I’m wondering what the impact these supplements have on a ZC diet that is based on higher amounts of protein.


(sandra) #34

The good DR got a LOT of people commenting on that Twitter post. As I recall he CHANGED the post to say “excessive” amounts can - details matter :wink:


(Karen) #35

I am getting whipsawed on the more fat vs more protein question. The article is great though.


(Shawn Cochran) #36

Now that was a great article. Really enjoyed the read and it was what I was looking for.


#37

There are an alarming number of people on this forum who continue to speak about protein intake on keto who still have yet to read and or comprehend much of what is contained in Amy’s blog post. Hopefully that will change soon.

As for the OP, I actually saw Dr. Naiman a few days ago and I got to speak to him quite a bit about protein as this is where he seems to branch off from the mainstream keto folks. His advice in a plateau is to increase protein and decrease fat. Carbs should always be low. He had several great points but the takeaways which really stuck with me are:

  • Protein is the number one macro in terms of satiety, then carbs, then fat. This isn’t even really disputed in science from what I understand.

  • If you have fat to lose then your body’s desire for protein will be what dictates appetite and satiety. The faster you get to your daily protein requirement the faster you’ll reach satiety.

  • The whole idea the dudes project of “the fat on your plate vs the fat you ate ten years ago” is 100% true. And therefore if you are eating high fat foods in excess when you have weight to lose you’ll be stalled out or even gaining from now until the end of time. I think it’s time we consider the increased satiety on keto to be more a result of decreased carbs and less about excess fat intake (my thoughts not Ted’s).

I found this chart pretty interesting, and it is perhaps the key to breaking the infamous keto stall that almost nobody in the world has been able to explain to an level of reasonable satisfaction in my mind.


(Adam Kirby) #38

Ben Bikman gave an excellent talk at Low Carb Breck about this very issue, and how there are actual experiments that show while protein raises insulin in the presence of carbs, on a low carb diet it doesn’t behave the same way at all and raises glucagon far more than it raises insulin, keeping a favorable insulin:glucagon balance. Awesome stuff, and it explains why people who go carnivore and up their protein still lose crap tons of weight and have nice fasting insulin levels.


#39

Excellent article, took some time to read through all the terms and find the core messages.

‘Chase results…’


(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #40

Yeah. I was gonna point out that focusing on protein induced insulin increases without looking at glucagon increases was focusing too much on the (meat) trees to see the (meat) forest.