Plant protein just as complete as meat protein, according to front page Huff Post article

(Stickin' with mammoth) #1

Don’t worry, they did lots of research, like interviewing Dr. Greger and quoting Dr. McDougall on the vegan side, and on the keto side, they interviewed…um…nobody.

But they did give a recommendation on how to get your daily allotment of plant protein:

According to Greger, … “one PB&J could get you a third of the way there.”


Well, I’m stuffed.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

You can get the essential amino acids in the necessary proportions by mixing the right foods in the proper amounts, but apparently that is not as easy as some people assume. There are a couple of lectures by Peter Ballerstedt available on YouTube, in which he discusses human protein needs, and the difference between crude protein (based on nitrogen content) and available protein (based on amino acid profile). Apparently, the only nitrogen source that the human body can make use of is amino acids, otherwise we could get our nitrogen from simply breathing.

Interestingly, the amount of available protein is limited by the least prevalent essential amino acid. In other words, if our food doesn’t contain enough lysine, for example, eating more of all the other amino acids won’t help.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #3

This is key. I love Peter, he’s feisty.

That is interesting. Did he say that or is there another source? I wanna read more about that.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

Here’s one of his lectures on protein:

ETA: The discussion of essential amino acids and the notion of the limiting amino acid begins at 25m.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #5

Coolness. Added to my list.

No, not that list.

Edit: Watching this now, realized I’ve already seen it twice, watching it for third time.


There are many people who seem to thrive on plant based, so, it is possible.

Unfortunately, not easy for people who need to be strict on carbs.


There is a lot of money at the local bank. Does that make me rich?

It’s all about accessibility to the protein and amino acids. So, “Plant protein”, which ones?, and “meat proteins”, but don’t we eat more than just the muscle meat?.. Hmmmm, feels like a set up. When I say accessibility I mean how digestible the whole food source is, how much processing it needs to access the amino acids, whether if the processing needed releases unwanted chemicals (and toxins), whether the protein is absorbed in the small intestine, or if we need some gut bugs to release the amino acids, or maybe even manufacture some, and then, can we absorb them from the large bowel?

What does “complete” mean. It seems to be describing a potential as something enters a biological maze.

Here’s my bonnet, and that there, is the bee :honeybee:.

Gah, the whole thing is not about the information, it’s about the biased messaging to support a vegan agenda. (I’m huffing(ton post) like a mentally deranged plant-based warrior…) Actually, it’s probably all about advertising and click-based statistics. Fall for it every time. This stuff doesn’t matter. Really, it doesn’t. It’s entertainment. As is reading people’s reactions. At best it tests our thinking.

But that’s my bias.

I couldn’t find the article (are you stirring Chonk?), but I found this one:

And this hilarious one :laughing: :

(Bob M) #8

I’m not sure they “thrive”. Particularity children.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

A “complete” protein is defined as containing all the essential amino acids (which the body cannot make for itself) in the proper proportions. It appears, from lectures by Peter Ballerstedt and others, that the body is limited by the least-abundant amino acid in the proteins it eats. And since we can only store an extremely limited amount of amino acids in the labile pool, there is no stock-piling for future use, unfortunately. That’s one of the reasons we need protein every day.

(Bob M) #10

Every day we’re not fasting. (Trying for a 2 day fast.)

I was on Pritikin for years. Not vegetarian, but ate rice and beans, etc., lower protein. White meats, egg whites, etc. Caused mental issues (depression), allergies, mood swings, hunger. Maybe some people can eat like this, but I can’t.


yea and it is only a shorter time they can go…most longer term vegans bail and then put it on youtube or tons of posts of how that lifestyle damn near killed them :slight_smile: so yea, they don’t thrive…I so feel ya on that, plus one can ‘heal and change’ dumping all the old crap food from our menu going vegan or tight vegetarian and feel better, but then longer term health issues with no animal fat and protein come into play definitely, so…but in the end, they all run back to meat, (or back to SAD which is very bad at that point), well a crapload of them do run to save their health! So just the internet shows me with all those bailing that lifestyle in the end shows it isn’t sustainable for health from what they say thru their experiences.

not all, some hold it, but there is a ton bailing for sure, read about it all the time out there.

so agree.


animal protein and fat intake. complete

plant based…must eat a combination of this and that and pair up with another type of plant and HOPE YOU in some way ‘got real nutrition’ into your body as it requires for survival.

most vegans or tight vegetarians can’t figure it out actually LOL
it takes darn big work to be a vegan and truly have some nutrition on a ‘real complete’ level for the body. I guess some can figure the balances and do…most come in blind thinking darn lettuce is gonna transform them and viola, I am cured and boy it ain’t that way is it?


I never questioned one can get all the protein with proper amino acid profile as a vegan. And probably many people are thriving on it, yes. (Doing it right is tricky though so most people probably mess it up. It’s not like humans in general are very smart and careful.)

But my body wants such a very low carb intake (especially carbs, animal sugar actually don’t seem to matter) and I won’t touch most green leaves, never did, eww (I adored vegs but not those) that it’s definitely not my way. I already had to abandon (very very near) vegetarianism. I only could do keto with it (even that was harder than my current default woe) but not extreme low-carb.
And I don’t want to bother so much with making my protein profile right. I probably could get away without that work, I would eat quite high protein, very mixed and watch if my body is happy :smiley: I would eat insane amounts of gluten, some legumes and other stuff - well okay, even I would research some… And let’s see.
But it’s sooooo easier just to eat complete protein. I love my staples anyway.
As for the other reasons to not eat meat and even eggs (or my not so much but important dairy), I have been thinking about those way too much and my opinion is pretty firm.

Oh and that’s only the protein. We know that meat gives us everything we need. If we don’t add lots of plants, that is… Iron is more complicated, Vitamin C need raises… We should start to eat fiber too… That’s so complicated.

I feel for the planet and do what I can but messing up my own life and well-being isn’t something I would do - and the planet would gain very little for my sacrifice (I know, I know, everyone is tiny but we need the right attitude and I sacrifice other things with this in mind… I won’t ruin my life, sorry, it’s hard enough as it is).

(Stickin' with mammoth) #14

I’m sure you know that I posted the original article as a joke, because it is a joke. I just don’t find it very funny how society has latched onto anti-meat nonsense so tightly and for so long in the face of rampant illness, common sense, and a surfeit of scientific data.

We’ll outlive them and enjoy our bodies more but they’ll lay waste to the world we have to share with them.


And I guess it’s not very recent for most of you on this forum…?
I only noticed it here in the last few years. It gets VERY VERY serious. Okay, easy to ignore and people do it but the shops have so many vegan options (it’s fine, vegans “need” them and normal people go for fatty pork as always or whatever they normally eat due to reasons, I never bought meat for decades) and articles talk about it as it would be the only smart and proper thing to do. I feel bad for people who are more easier influenced and start to buy it and feed it to a body that doesn’t want that.
Though a health-conscious vegan diet easily may be better than the normal one. I don’t know. Probably it depends what is normal for the one in question and how resilient they are if it’s about carbs…

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

Veganism is ultimately rooted in religious ideology, in which eating meat is equated with lustfulness and is therefore evil. The health, ethical, and environmental arguments are merely convenient justifications, so trying to challenge them on rational grounds is pointless; their truth or falsity is irrelevant.

Unfortunately, the idea that the body is evil and only the spirit is good is deeply rooted and hard to challenge, even though it is actually antithetical to basic Judaeo-Christian theology (God created the world, and called it good). Unfortunately, early Christian apologists felt a need to explain their faith in terms the pagan world would understand, and so borrowed the language of the ancient philosophers. And the philosophers’ dualistic thinking sneaked in on the back of the terminology.

(Bob M) #17

When I was on Pritikin, my normal meals were breakfast of some type of hot cereal (oats, malto-meal, etc.), lunch of pasta, dinner of brown rice and beans. Snacks were rice cakes.

Recently, I saw someone do an analysis of how much rice and beans you’d have to eat to get the complete protein in a small amount (3 ounces?) of beef, and it was stunningly large.

I saw someone with a post on Twitter trying to compare eating oats with bacon, in the context of using CGMs. The idea what that “oats”, even though they caused “physiological normal” blood sugar response, were “good”, while bacon (no blood sugar response) was “bad”.

But I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would be STARVING ten minutes after eating oats, and not be hungry for hours after eating bacon. (I ate oats plain. But maybe if I heaped butter and cream on them, I wouldn’t be hungry. But then why eat the oats? Just have a bullet proof coffee.)

Looking back, I’m surprised I made it as long as I did on Pritikin. I was way under eating protein.

Edit: I wish I knew where I saw that info. Unfortunately, searching “rice beans beef comparison” brings up tons of vegan/vegetarian websites where the main argument is based on grams of protein on labels, which Peter Ballerstedt has indicated is misleading.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #18

Yeah, I’m familiar with the whole sordid back story, pondering it is enough to build up a potent rage to vacuum the entire house. Nothing T’s me off more than one group foisting their beliefs upon another, much less legislating them, which is pretty close to what we’ve got right now with the absurd nutritional guidelines being churned out by the very governmental entity in charge of selling those foods. That’s like handing a fox a security badge and a flashlight and saying, “There’s twenty chickens in there last time we counted but, you know, whatever, just do your best. No harm, no fowl.”

I have two words for you: Easter eggs.

I used to believe that the obvious would become readily apparent to anyone really watching (and thinking critically) but the last five years or so have eroded my faith in humanity. At this point, I’m just keeping my nose down and buying beef in bulk as long as I can.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19

Two solutions:

  1. Soylent Green

  2. “To serve man”

(Stickin' with mammoth) #20