Past 2 weeks

(Ivy) #1

I have only been on keto for some 2 weeks and did one 36 hour fast during the first week of keto, not knowing if it was the best thing really.

Later on, now, some two weeks in, I noticed recently that my skin, when pinched, feels like theres a fatty tissue to grab. This is normal, probably, which is why I dont really need to post about it I guess. Im just wondering whats going on thats making my skin like this, and why is it happening?Its all over my body in places I didnt ever have extra skin to pinch, but only upper body. I didnt gain weight at all yet, however.
I did read as far as autophagy goes, fasting after that 6-8 weeks are done will help it go away. So thats that.

On a second note, I am going to the doc today, and wonder what tests I could get, without letting my doctor know why/that im doing keto

Last – I have lost 4 lbs on this diet and parts of me are so much better. I enjoy being fat adapted, and waiting that 6-8 weeks when my muscles become fat adapted. Just one question though, is taking CLA worth it, as CLA is for preserving muscle mass–I think I am right it is useless?

I do want something sorted out:

What can I do to prevent bad things from happening with keto, such as, but skimping over what I already found out [correct me if im wrong here]

  1. preventing gallstones with coffee and regularity with vitamin C intake, eggs/soy/milk
  2. preventing gallstones with cacao powder – Volupta has contaminant free, best I found

Im sure there must be something else. Im considering ginger water. I’d like to know everything! :slight_smile:

(Joey) #2

A few quick reactions…

Congratulations on getting 2 weeks into keto. Most of your near-term weight loss has been water weight. That’s fine, but it’s unlikely that your change in diet has yet put you in a fat-adapted state, nor has it gotten to the point where you would see extra skin due to fat loss (again, think H2O loss).

Which suggests: you must be sure to stay well hydrated and keep your electrolytes up.

I would recommend AGAINST fasting for some time to come. Let your body adapt to burning fat instead of carbs. Feeding yourself healthy dietary fat - without the carbs - is the best way to make that happen WITHOUT sending “starvation” signals to your metabolism, which would otherwise begin to shut down. That outcome wouldn’t help you in any way - and would be highly counterproductive.

As for your relationship with your doctor, the more truthful you are, the better advice a supportive/knowledgeable physician can be. If they are firmly unsupportive of your carefully researched, informed health choices, you’re better off knowing this so you can find a practitioner who will be a better fit with your health goals and plans. Lying to your physician renders her/him useless when it comes to being of help to you.

Best wishes! :vulcan_salute:

(Robin) #3

Good job, Ivy. One post with a list of questions! So much better than being bombarded all day. Unfortunately I can’t answer any of this because I have never worried about any of this. I keep it simple. Carbs under 20. You got this.

(Ivy) #4

Hi. Just want to ask you if you mean IF - I do 16:8 - or fasting on a whole/what type. If you mean at all, then you can ignore my reply.

(Joey) #5

Sorry for my confusion … I thought you’d fasted for 36 hours. If you mean intermittent fasting in terms of a 2-meal-a-day “feeding window” then I give you a completely different answer… that’d be great!

By avoiding food for a few extra hours (NOT days) you give your body a better chance to keep insulin lower for a longer period. This is extremely helpful to promote fat-adaptation, weight loss, etc.

I would suggest avoiding 24+ hour fasting until you’re really comfortable with new low-carb eating habits/style/menu. It’s just likely to throw too many curveballs at your metabolism at the same time, make yourself too miserable to continue, and fall off the course you’ve designed for yourself.

As noted above, restrict net carbs to roughly 20gram daily - if you can get into the habit of also skipping breakfast, for example, great. But if not, don’t sweat it at this stage.

Good luck!

(Ivy) #6

Where I am is slightly over 2 weeks into keto. I had one cheat meal and possibly one other. So that was 3 weeks cut to two.

My question is, is the weight loss only after the 6-8 weeks, because I’ve gained quute a bit of body fat since after week 1 or so. Can someone explain it? All I’m guessing is that it is not linear. Is that all there is to know, aside from cutting caffeine, dairy as possible culprits?

I’m not really all hungry daily, so eating is kind-of a task, but as far as I know I am striving to keep my kcals up until fat adaptation. So I know I can’t cut kcals to lose it.


There’s nothing to explain. Fat-loss is complicated and isn’t guaranteed on keto. Of course people can eat at a deficit and lose fat even before fat adaptation, many people do that and lose a lot of fat, not just weight in their first months, there is no rules about force-feeding ourselves if less is enough. Of course, there is a limit especially people who has not much to lose, starving is bad on keto too but eating a bit less than our energy need is pretty normal. I didn’t do it myself as I was hungry but many others do. Some people eat way less without a problem but they can afford it due to lots of extra fat.

(Carnivore for the win) #8

Weight loss is not linear. It goes down, stays the same, or goes up from day to day and week to week. It’s best to look at it over the months or years.

I lost a bunch of weight in the first week, like 7 or 9 pounds, due to the glycogen and water loss, but I didn’t cheat. And I have slowly lost a bunch of fat over the years, but I have not cheated. Have some patience and look at it long term to see significant changes in weight and body composition.

(Joey) #9

@IvyKCKO I’ll leave the rest of your question/s to others and simply offer a comment on the concept of “cheating.” I’ve never really liked that term much in the context of high fat/low carb eating…

There are SO many delicious, crumptious fat/protein foods and snacks out there for someone restricting their carbs/sugar. I’d encourage you to make those high fat/protein foods available within arm’s reach wherever you go.

Then, instead of being tempted by some sugary/starchy carb snack, you’ll have a keto-friendly alternative. Those foods are awesome, taste great, and will keep you on the path you’re pursuing.

This way, there’s no such thing as cheating. There’s just a parade of great flavors and satisfying foods to munch … assuming you are indeed hungry in the first place.

(Carnivore for the win) #10

I find that any carbs, even small amounts, create carb cravings and throw off my hunger signals.

(Ivy) #11

But restricting my kcals

  1. down to my BMR is OK?
  2. 300 kcals above it OK?

(Ivy) #12

I know “I got this,” but what tests could I get done at doctors office or get planned for, “cause it wouldn’t hurt to” ?

Haven’t had a doctor that worked me in adulthood. I have a new one that I’m seeing in about an hour.

(Scott) #13

I would get the NMR lipid test since you have just started since everyone is going to tell you a high fat diet is bad. I am three years in and I will put my LDL & HDL numbers up against anybody.

(Ivy) #15

Could I consider gallstones, pancreatitis, intestinal problems or other abdominal condition tests Liver? Liver, kidney, panels. Hba1c. , blood count?

(Old Baconian) #16

You don’t have to worry about that sort of question if you eat to satisfy your hunger. Let your body measure your energy expenditure and decide how much to take in!

(Ivy) #17

I think I know to eat now. If Im satiated at eating slightly above or above BMR (mine is 1489), is that enough calories until I reach fat adaptation? Please dont reply calories dont matter – I know that, plus, I know someone said I need xtra calorically while in the first phase here.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #18

As noted by @PaulL if you let your body tell you when to eat and when to stop you won’t have to worry about this. Assuming your hunger and satiety signals are relatively normal. But if not, or you want to do it just for the sake of doing it or experimentation - here’s what I did when I started keto.

I had no idea what my BMR was or my TDEE. So I just assumed being a 71 year old - and moderately active - male my BMR was probably around 1500 kcals per day and my TDEE about 1800 kcals per day. I had about 25 pounds of fat I wanted to lose, so I thought eating 1500 kcals per day would be a conservative deficit and I’d lose it. Well, I certainly lost it! In about 3 months - and then some.

I started keto with a 4-day water fast. On day two I experienced what I term ‘carb hunger’. I describe it as like the flesh eating plant in the movie Little Shop of Horrors constantly demanding to be fed. By the morning of day three the carb hunger was gone and I have never felt hunger since. What I now experience as ‘hunger’ is just a gentle and fleeting reminder that I haven’t eaten for awhile and it might be a good idea to do so. I compare this ‘keto hunger’ to the accountant reporting at a monthly board meeting that outgo exceeded income during the preceding month and the difference had to be made up from the current account. Not exciting stuff.

After the first 3 months - and 25 pounds lighter - I decided I had lost as much weight/fat as I wanted and started eating more to eliminate the deficit. Stopping the loss took an additional 3 months, bumping up my total daily kcals every week or two, and losing another 10 pounds of fat in the process. At 2500 kcals per day my weight and body comp stabilized at 145 pounds and 14-15% BF. I have maintained the same for 4 years. These numbers approximate my body comp at the age of 18 - I’ll take it, thank you!

So I started keto eating at a 1000 kcal per day energy deficit and only stopped losing when I got to 2500 kcals per day. Was I a CICO Success Story™? I don’t want to get into that here, but very willing to elsewhere - and might. Eating very low carbs, moderate protein and high fat kept my insulin low, and my adipose cells wide open releasing the energy to make up the difference. And I never felt the slightest bit hungry doing it. In fact, I suspect that absence of hunger is a key component of this whole process. One is never free from hunger on a conventional CICO diet regimen. For me, at least, keto removed that completely.

A year later I got a full-time job at Walmart and started losing weight. I dropped to just a little less than 141 pounds. I had an idea what to do to stop it. I upped my kcals per day to 2700.

Yes, I weigh my food, eat to macros and a ‘caloric window’. As long as I do so I maintain my overall weight and body comp, have lots of energy and remain mentally alert and healthy. I do this because I do not have reliable hunger and satiety signals. I did all the decades eating SAD, but not now. Maybe they will come back - I don’t know. But I don’t find measuring and calculating tedious. I designed a spreadsheet that does most of the work planning my daily meals.

At 4 1/2 years of keto, I’m a happy camper.

Ketosis versus calorie deficit question
(Ivy) #19
  1. Do you know what the flabby/flappy skin is/is coming from that I gained over my first two weeks on keto and if this is OK?

  2. Sorry if this is a broken question.

IF EATING TO SATIETY, which I can do on 1500 kcals or even lower,
Is this true about adhering to a 500 calorie deficit, if I want to get fat adapted? Thinking Im over it calorically

  1. What does having a past lack of growth hormone have to do with my journey on keto now? [I didnt eat near;y enough fat most of my entire adulthood!! really!!]

(Butter Withaspoon) #20

That Gainful site has some major errors in regards to keto. It’s one of the reasons that this forum and the 2 keto dudes podcast exists- to provide some good information among the mess of confused information.

If you gather random hints from across the internet you’ll get a lot of contradictions and random questions that will be extra frustrating.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #21

I suggested an answer to your flabby skin in the other topic about it: loss of water and sub-cutaneous fat.

Fat adaptation does not require eating to a calorie/energy deficit. Eating a calorie/energy deficit will not get you fat adapted faster. In fact, it will hinder the process. Efficient utilization of fat requires healthy mitochondria. Eating SAD for years/decades damages the mitochondria. The extent and severity of the damage determines how long it takes to fix. You need to eat enough to have sufficient energy to do the job. Cutting carbs will get you fat adapted as fast as you’re going to get it.

I don’t know much about growth hormone. I would expect it has significant impact. I suspect that I have slightly elevated thyroid hormones based on the experience of my dad who had hyperthyroid in his early adulthood and my own experience. I have never been tested, however, so only speculating. I have been lean all my life even while eating SAD for 7 decades and not being a light or picky eater doing so. I only started to gain weight slowly during the decade of my 60s. I drank a lot of beer and ate a lot of ice cream. I regained the weight and body comp of my 18 year old self within 6 months starting keto. So I wasn’t too badly damaged. Maybe you’re not either. Hopefully.