Paleo, Surgery, Stall, and now Keto

(Tim Rayburn) #1

Greetings all, I’m new here to the Ketogenic Forums, having learned about it from the 2 Keto Dudes podcast. I’m a professional software developer (I’ve known Carl for several years via .NET Rocks and as a fellow Microsoft MVP) but my wife and I just started on Keto on August 21st, 2017. As a rough history, I’ve always been wildly overweight, but in June of 2013 my weight reached the point of causing me to be unable to stand during the technical presentations I would give in the developer community, and that was the last straw for me. So my journey began.

  • As I set on the journey 7/31/2013 I weighed in at 615 lbs
  • Encouraged by several people around me I began a 90lbs in 90days challenge:
    • 2 hours per day at the gym
    • Eating a Paleo diet
  • By the end of 2013 I was down to 515 lbs.
  • I then was able to pursue bariatric surgery, I had a Gastric Sleeve done in Feb of 2014.
    • But my diet also went to the “recommended” carb centric pre and post surgery plan my physician prescribed, because after all I was on Paleo and surely the dieticians and doctors new better than the “eat like a caveman” crowd.
  • Over the next year, I lost nearly another 100 lbs, moving me to 423 lbs.
  • But then three things happened:
    • I became less regimented about eating only 3 times per day because I was feeling hungry
    • Even when I was good, my body fought me tooth and nails going below 423.
    • My lymphedema in my legs got out of control, swelling from just above the ankle to the knee
  • So I stalled, and was mostly happy that my fitness and cardio had returned enough I could live my sedentary lifestyle.
  • But I still wanted to reach my goal weight of “any weight that starts with a 2” aka 299 lbs. So my wife and I decided in August of 2017 after years of stalled weight loss to get back on some low carb diet, and this time chose Keto for a variety of reasons.
  • On August 21, 2017 I weighed in at 450.8
  • It is now Sept 27, 2017 and I’m fighting against that 420-ish barrier again. I touched 419 on 9/19/17 but then immediately bounced back up.

Some relevant info:

  • No Diabetic problems or family history
  • No cholesterol problems
  • Sleep Apnea
  • Lymphedema in both legs

Diet

  • Lots of BBQ (I’m a crazy BBQ guy) including Barbacoa and Brisket, paired with various fat based sauces to keep things balanced.
  • Other keto recipes, for lunches bunless burgers or just coffee with cream.
  • Hunger has been decreasing

Habits

  • Do not measure glucose or ketons because I’ve never needed a Glucose Meter because no diabetes.
  • I’m pretty sure despite this that I am in ketosis. Fat (cream in coffee or cheese squares) do provide a very quick energy boost
  • I didn’t really feel a Carb Flu this time, though I totally did when I went on Paleo

The Big Question
What techniques should I use to conquer this barrier my body seems very stubborn about getting past?

(Carpe salata!) #2

I’d say stop weighing. Concentrate on listening to your body … eat to satiety , no snacking, Drink more water.

Just some thoughts. You’re doing great - keto on.

#3

Fasting = In fact a 7 day extended fast will get you started in the right direction.

I to had Lymphodemeia - in my trunk in my underarms and in both lower legs = this was chronic so much so I ended up in hospital being treated for a week on intravenous drip with max strength antibiotics, which eventually removed the infection.

About this time I found Jason Fung’s “The Complete Guide to Fasting” read and re-read this book whilst being Bound every three days with triple bandages to reduce the swelling in my legs (Def- NO fun treatment).

At the same time I discovered the KETO-WOE, for the next three months I did many n=1 and worked through two EF of 5 and 7 days and switched about IF of 16-8 / 20-4 / and 23-1 for the next several weeks.

Outcome =|= I still wear daily class two below the knee stockings but can now fit into size 9 (UK) shoes first time for 11 years.
The swellings and infections are long gone. No more Oedema nor Cellulitis.

I now fast - 1 week of EF and 2 weeks of daily IF’s switching up different times controlled by my hunger. A simple rule = if not hungry = do not eat until you are.

My weight is slowly decreasing again after a six months stall but I am in no hurry as it is more important to use the time to let your body heal with this WOE.

Often time you do not notice many of the Healthy changes that are taking place within and having had diabetes for 20 odd years, I can not expect everything to mend overnight = remember almost all of the body can re-new it’s self in a 7 year time cycle.
So in my case by the time I am 75 I should be getting to that renewed state which is something to really look forward to.

Long story short - I was on Insulin 120units twice a day = now None.
I was on Metformin 500mg x 2 after food daily + now None.
I also had Olmesartan medoxmil + Chloramphenicol + Furosemide + Spironolactone + Fenofibrate. all gone and none taken since December 2016.

I do still take Colecalciferol - a fancy name for Vitamin D.

Today I weigh 95 kg (have about 12 more to go) I am fitter than I have ever been the last 20 years,
And for a 70 year old I have fantastic clarity of mind, I enjoy waking up everyday looking forward to what new things are developing with this WOE.

Only eat what your body needs as anything else will go to waist… Pun intended… :slight_smile:

A Keto way of eating, supplemented with Fasting long enough to ensure autophagy (3+ days) will mend most all ills and remove all likely stalls.

Good luck with your progress - I will be watching your progress.

KC&KO…

(VLC.MD) #4

And eat slowly. Time how long it takes you to eat your food, especially your big meals. And then double the time. Then set a timer for the next two weeks for your big meals and make sure you remain seated for the whole time. If you finish early tough luck - go slower next time.

Eating is emotional. Eat to emotional satiety too.

Where possible eat with someone else. Focus on talking and listening and not on the food. Some people the “I’m full feeling” comes slower. So by the time you feel full … you probably ate too much.

(VLC.MD) #5

Fasting.
Capital F.

Keto is great. Fasting is the very best way to improve your weight / health.
Keto is the gateway drug. Time for you to try the good stuff.

#6

Agree with all of above, mostly the “stop weighing” and the “KCKO” parts. Sounds like you’re doing great. Congratulations, Tim!

Here’s a fun thing to do: write the next several bullets of your story, but from the perspective of several years into the future. It would include things like:
“I needed to step away from the scale so that I could focus more on how I was feeling and how my body responded to different foods and different meal timing”

“I loved re-discovering the joy of movement”

“My sleep apnea resolved and now my sleep is wonderful - restful, deep”

“Also, it was so helpful to shift my attention to how I was feeling emotionally. Six hundred plus pounds down to the four hundreds was a huge change! and contemplating going lower was exciting but also felt like new territory and I needed time to get comfortable at each new stage.”

"I was buying new clothes every 4-6 months. Since I wasn’t weighing myself in that stretch, I don’t know exactly how fast the weight came off in pounds, but in inches it seemed to happen slowly, then all at once (need new pants!), then a pause again… "

“I realize now how much internal healing was happening during the stalls; those were probably the most important times in terms of health and long-term success”

"Those stalls were also my best teachers! learning to be comfortable and patient and trust that I was on the right path, steadily going forward and taking care of myself "

"Now that I’m at my goal size, I get to [what? list all the things!!! the longer the list, the better! and savor them as you go!] and

“I love being a guide for others who are where I was just a few short years ago.”

#7

@Tim_Rayburn, how are you doing?

(Tim Rayburn) #8

Update as of 11/13/2017:

I tried my first extended fast in early October, went 70 hours without eating and that definitely helped break through my stall around 420. On Halloween I put the 400s behind me forever, weighing in at 399.6 that day. Since then my body has bounced around from 396-399. Work and travel have not been kind, but I’m very proud of hitting 399 especially since the weekend before Halloween I was in Las Vegas for a company retreat, where I lead a fine dining outing, and still managed to move the weight in the right direction.

I appreciate all the KCKO advice, I truly do. I also understand where all of the “stop weighing yourself” advice comes from, but that simply isn’t in the cards right now. While I know that the scale can be a demotivator for so many people for staying with this WOE, for me it is a daily reminder/recommittment to where I want my health to be. I’ve gone up occasionally, down more than that, and I’m fine with the cycles. But I also know for me, if I’m not daily recommitting that I’ll start (slowly) packing back on the weight.

#9

Sounds great, Tim! Good for you.

(Richard Hanson) #10

Hi Tim,

Software developer so rational, logical?

Bariatric surgery greatly limits the volume of food you can eat. It creates a significant caloric restriction that is close to fasting and you burned off about 100 lb. You can accomplish the exactly same thing without the surgery, the time away from work, the cost, the post-surgical complications … If you don’t eat you will loose weight.

Weight loss is not as simple as calories in v. calories out, but neither is the law of conservation of energy violated. Once/if/when your are keto adapted, once your insulin levels are low and your stored fat is available as a source of energy to provision your metabolic demands, once your body has adjusted to utilizing fat as the principle fuel, you can easily eat a calorie restricted diet that will result in significant, sustainable weight loss. The key is getting your insulin level low, it matters not if you are diabetic or not, which means eating only incidental net carbs < 20 g/day and moderate levels of protein, for me that is < 50 g/day.

Why does fasting work? Why does bariatric surgery work? They both work for the same reason, caloric restriction.

You sound like a very smart man. Just sit down and write an algorithm for weight loss, a daily set of instructions. Instrument the performance of your algorithm by recording both the inputs, the foods consumed, and the outputs, the weight that is lost. Don’t write it for yourself, it will work for anyone with only modest variations to account for specific medical issues, pretend that it is for someone else. Then just execute that program every day.

Most diets fail because fat is locked away behind a wall of insulin. Eat, what you eat and when you eat, in a manner that minimizes your insulin response to exogenous inputs, eat a caloric restricted diet, or not at all, and you will loose weight. Include those parameters in your algorithm.

It is very likely that you have written algorithms to solve far more complicated problems in the past.

Best Regards,
Richard

P.S. What I found truly astounding is how little hunger I have experienced eating a ketogenic diet compared to when I ate SAD, often experiencing intense hunger even after stuffing myself with so much food that I was painfully full.