November 2023 IF/EF Fasting Chat Thread - All Welcome

#41

I am pretty sure my stomach stays like that until I die… :slight_smile: It’s a normal capacity for a human stomach, maybe not everyone has it that big but it’s not excessive. I almost never ate that much in my life as I always ate very fatty - though my carbier times had volume too… :thinking:
But I went low-carb about 13 years ago and almost never go even close to 1 liter since then… It didn’t change, I still can have 2 liters. IDK what stomachs do, never interested about it much enough but I suppose this 2 liters is my personal maximum stomach capacity. My stomach must be smaller normally but it stretches when needed (something that almost never happens).

I don’t care about my stomach capacity as it has zero effect on my hunger, food desires or anything, really.

:scream:
It truly sounds a bit scary and very much impossible for me :smiley: Yeah, I could do it if life forced me but otherwise… My last 48 hour fast was years ago :frowning: Well that’s something I dislike but not enough to break through my problems…

I actually would hate this.
Fullness is something I do my best to avoid. Be it “I feel full” or stomach fullness. The latter is awful, maybe I mentioned it? Completely full stomach with huge hunger, it’s the absolute worst… But it’s easy to avoid, I typically eat dense food and a little volume is enough per day. My stomach is fine :slight_smile: I don’t even need to care about its signs but it’s pretty silent most of the time. It’s just there, doing its job. I don’t even notice if it’s empty (only if it’s full because it feels so bad) unless I focus on it.

2 weeks… Oh my. There I would need to worry about refeeding! Well, not worry, being careful but probably even that wouldn’t be needed. After just 5 days (but it started after 2, maybe?) I felt so very disconnected from eating that it was very odd to eat again. So weird, I ate all my life, a lot and frequently (I mean, multiple times every day) and a few days fast managed to sever this very intimate and passionate connection!
But that is one thing one can love in longer fasts, new, interesting, unusual experiences! Yeah, fasting through the first usual eating window, that is the hard one. And the rest of the day too… Skipping lunch, doable. Skipping dinner too and going to bed very well-fasted… Super tricky. But the second day is tough too, thankfully the morning is satiated, I have this perk. And I couldn’t test the third day again, just once, decades before. Oh and when I starved but that was easy (I was fat and it didn’t last long) as I had no food (after a while) or money so I needn’t to fight temptation or thinking if I should eat. I just didn’t eat and my wonderful body didn’t pester me as it understood it would be in vain. I still am amazed. It was 8 Celsius in the house, I was starving and I felt not much hunger and I wasn’t cold. I never could do this not cold thing again, not even in 12-13 Celsius (the house was quite horrible before insulation. we went from “the worst without broken windows/doors” - I experienced that too. the house got super cold during my sleep as I couldn’t put wood on the fire - to “nearly passive house” level).

I try to be scarce but everyone can just ignore me so maybe it’s fine if I write sometimes…? It’s 5:20pm, I feel too well to blow it with eating :smiley: Is there a term for this, fasting bliss or something? When I notice that it’s not normal fasting period before my first meal but I actually skipped a meal and something starts to change…
I am hungry though and more importantly a bit week/dizzy so I will have dinner. Later. With my SO. Oh so he eats now. I go and cook my food then.

Can I do this tomorrow too I wonder… Skipping lunch…

(icky) #42

Yup… see this thread!
(There’s quite a few comments from me from 2018 when I tried Keto for the first time :laughing:)

#43

I have read about that euphoria but that comes later if I remember well and mine didn’t feel like that. I just was excited about fasting when I already was past my usual mealtime and something changed.
Maybe it was merely I being happy about not eating the first minute after getting any urge. But I do have some nice feelings about fasting. I love eating and I love fasting when the thing in question fits me and some stupid part of me doesn’t go against it. I am sure I often ate when fasting would have been way better, I want to lose that.

I had my small but protein rich dinner in the end around 6pm, I do love being nicely satiated too… I started to get too “off”, weak and dizzy doesn’t describe it well. I don’t function right when it happens so I always eat then. My appetite was super low but thankfully eating went well, not giving me the usual joy though.
I didn’t get this “off” feeling in the past, hence the existence my little EFs :frowning: Why do I have this now? I can’t push through it, I truly feel somewhat unwell and annoyingly off there, I usually can’t focus on anything either…

I am not displeased (as long as today stays OMAD but I am very determined now). Baby steps! But I do try to skip lunch tomorrow if comfortably possible. With this small meal it probably won’t happen but theoretically possible so maybe. I am still excited and into fasting more than usual, I need to nurture this feeling!
And forget about food in general until tomorrow afternoon.

(Alec) #44

I think there is an assumption in that timeline that the person is eating a “normal” or SAD diet. BG drops at 4-5hrs… if you are carnivore or strict keto this wouldn’t happen, body just makes whatever glucose it needs when it needs it, so BG would not drop. Fat burning starts at 16hrs… a carnivore/keto body is always burning fat, and arguably most people burn some fat overnight even on a SAD diet (well before 16hrs).

The other points about HGH and autophagy…. Who knows :man_shrugging:

#45

Even my tiny meal (1300 kcal is already not much for a first meal in my world though decent on TMAD but for OMAD? very low-cal day, I almost never can pull off such ones!) lasted for 20 hours, I was perfectly satiated for that long, great. Then I was a bit hungry for another hour and then my SO came home and we had lunch, it was glorious.
Today I have TMAD, most probably, with some proper calorie intake and I really hope I can go back to OMAD tomorrow. I probably could have pushed for it even today but I didn’t want to. Stress, gloom, hunger, headache, I surely didn’t want to force fasting even a bit. So I feel my lunch was justified - in contrast with all the cases where I wasn’t even really hungry but it was lunchtime and food was tempting… I fight against that now.

(icky) #46

I’m just finishing my 3rd day. It went really well and was easy. I was a bit worried about being at work today (physical work and night shift) - whether I might feel weaker/ low blood pressure/ low blood sugar and hence be slower at work but it wasn’t an issue at all.

I’m grateful it’s going so well and I hope I see some weight loss by the end of the week. I don’t have any scales at home so I’m judging by the flab I lose around my middle.

(icky) #47

Starting on Day 5. It’s still easy, going well. I’m beginning to lose a bit of the flab around my middle. It’s slow going, but I can see some progress.

(Robin) #48

Maybe you’ve shared this info earlier…. But I’m assuming you are intermittent fasting?
It was sure a game changer for me.

(icky) #49

No, I’m doing a full fast, no food at all, just herbal tea, coffee, broths, tomato juice. Aiming for a week but may extend to 2 weeks if it keeps going this well.

(Robin) #50

Well, you are way more disciplined than me!
I hope you reach your goal. I’ll be curious to know how you get along after. I’ve always assumed that I would just gain back everything when I broke the fast. But it makes sense that once your fat 9s gone, it’s gone.
Keep us in the loop.
You got this!

(icky) #51

Hi Robin, nah, I don’t think I’m very disciplined… Extended fasts are just something I’ve gotten good at cos of lots of practise over the years… I’ve got it down to an artform now, so it’s usually easypeasy. And when it’s not, I know it’s a sign that either my body or brain aren’t ready for a fast right then…

From the first time I ever fasted, I made it a golden rule that I would never allow fasting to be a “negative” experience for my body, because I figured that such memories get stored in the body and that then, in future, my body would rebel and try to avoid fasting. I’ve always managed to stick to that golden rule and my body’s been brilliant about making my fasts easy and effortless.

If I was actually disciplined, then eating carbs wouldn’t be such a problem for me, I’d excerise more and I’d find Keto easier. I think everyone’s just good at different stuff and extended fasts are one of my things that come easily.

Today is Day 6 and it continues to be a breeze. I had a Dr’s appt yesterday and amongst other things, I got weighed… So between one month of Keto and 6 days of fasting, I have lost 5 kg / 10 pounds. I’m pretty happy with that result so far :relaxed:

(icky) #52

Completed day 7 today and my body says “It’s enough”. I would’ve liked to have continued longer but I always promise my body I’ll listen to its signals when fasting. So I’ll stop today and maybe try for another week in December.

I’ll be curious to see how my weight goes from here on in… In the past I’ve never had a yoyo/ rebound effect, but since I’ve gone into peri-menopause, all the old rules seem to be dead in the water, as far as my body is concerned, so basically, nothing would surprise me…

(icky) #53

Well this is weird… I ended up breaking my fast with 4 slices of cheese last night… And this morning, I’ve woken up to my body saying “Hey, let’s fast some more… That was going so well”

So weird. Never had that happen before. But then, as a carb addict, I guess in the past, I’ve always broken a fast with something carby and hence jumped right back on the whole carb merry-go-round…?

This is the first time I’ve exited a fast with a keto, non-insulin producing “meal”.

So weird, but also really good. I’m the heaviest I’ve ever been, which is not soooo bad, cos I was skinny all my life (typical TOFI) until menopause hit. I would say I’ve been 30 kg / 60 pounds overweight recently, which is obviously too much, but also feels do-able in terms of losing it…

I’m down 5 kg/ 10 pounds so far, and I’m pleased with that and I’m definitely losing belly squidge. Importanty, I think (hope!) that I’m also losing some of the visceral fat around my organs.

What I don’t know is how much menopause has shifted my previous body baseline… The menopausal “new normal” is still something I’m definitely adjusting to.

In ye olde days, 30 kg/ 60 pounds lighter would have been a good weight for me. I don’t know whether to aim for that old normal… If it takes a super-human effort to get back to my younger weight, I don’t think I want to pursue it. If menopause has added 10 kg/ 20 pounds as my new baseline, then I’m going to accept that and live with my now hormonally-altered body.

So yeah, not sure what I’m aiming for, but I guess I’ll find out once I get there.

Not sure where this extended fast is going either… I’m going to call today “Day 7 +1” since it’s not quite “Day 8” since I briefly broke the fast last night…

(Robin) #54

WOWEE… Way to go.

(B Creighton) #55

Hi all. Reporting back for November results… I was naughty… not nice…

Not very accurately. I use my wife’s Renpho smart scale which uses biometrics. It is only somewhat accurate, but perhaps it is more accurate than I am giving it credit for. It is reaonably close I believe.

No. That is not long enough to cause muscle loss. I still have plenty of fat to use before I would start breaking down muscle. If anything, it seems to help me build muscle by stimulating stem cell growth, since ultimately that is where new muscle comes from - satellite cells which start as stem cells. Maybe it is not the fastest way to build muscle, but I am going to try it again. I was very successful the first time I did it, and got stronger than I have ever been in my life.

Well, the IF I believe will help me burn off more fat. I also strive to build up my brown fat in the winter time primarily with some cold exposure by keeping my heat low - and I exercise in my skivvies. That 18% to 11% is only about 10 pounds of fat. I did more than that my first winter of keto. I still have about 7 pounds of visceral fat according to our Renpho, and won’t miss it at all! I still have an average amount of subcutaneous fat too, although I have lost more of it this year. However, I am looking to turn some of that subcutaneous fat into brown fat, which will help me burn off more fat. I do this again primarily by cold exposure, but also I ramp up my ketones a little by incorporating more MCTs… I use a home-made MCT dressing on kale salads about 2 x/wk.

My results for November were poor though. I really did very little of the IF… because I was still working out in the cold, and was afraid to skip breakfast on those days. As of today I am back in ketosis again after my Thanksgiving cheating. My current results for November are that I actually gained a 1/2 pound of fat, and my visceral fat went back up to 7 from 6. I am back to 18% body fat from my temporary dip to 17%. However, my Renpho says I gained a 1/2 pound of “skeletal muscle” and a full pound of muscle mass. I don’t really understand the distinction it is making. maybe the muscle mass includes glycogen. Anyone? So, I wasn’t very faithful in my workouts, and really only lightly worked out for about 2 weeks before Thanksgiving. So gaining a 1/2 pound of muscle that quick is encouraging. I want to gain 3 times what is realistic though over the next 4 months. I think I did that my first year of keto though, so I know it can be done.

(icky) #56

So, I fasted for 7 days, thought I’d end the fast and ate a small amount of cheese, next day my body says “let’s keep fasting” and then at 12 days, I switched to what I guess is “a protein-sparing modified fast or PSMF diet” in that I’m fasting all day and then eating a small amount of cheese in the evening. Not really IF or OMAD, cos the amount I’m eating is much too small to qualify as a meal.

I’m confused as to whether it’s a good thing or not (calorie restriction). I’m trying to trust my body tho because it’s signalling that this is what it wants to do atm. I used to have a healthy metabolism, where calorie restriction did lead to weight loss without a rebound effect.

But since menopause and insulin resistance have become my new normal, and have totally changed my metabolism, I’ve absolutely no idea whether calorie restriction is helpful or problematic. I guess I will wait and see the results.

I haven’t really got an aim for how long to continue this for… With the “new normal” I’m unsure of what to do/ not to do and am trying to follow my body’s signals (unless the signals seem too weird and then I’m aiming for sensible middle ground).

(KM) #57

I understand the confusion. Female, post meno. I’m basically at my goal weight and have been maintaining it. My body’s saying ‘meh, ok, I guess I could eat, but don’t go to any trouble on my account.’ So I’m guessing I’ve reduced my RMR. But is that actually a problem???

#58

Maybe spend $80, get a DEXA scan, and then calibrate your home scale. This is still considered the gold standard for body bone density, fat, and muscle composition. It’s not perfect, but it’s more reliable than a home scale. My home scale ($450) was inaccurate by +/- 7% body fat. The scale read 17%, yet according to DEXA, I was 11%.
Why the push to get to 11%?