Not reached ketosis

ketosis
#1

Hi, I am just starting on my ketogenic journey as a potential cure for my lipoedema. I only began the diet a couple weeks ago, but already the lipoedema pain seems to have greatly reduced. I am 159cm and 53kg so not overweight. But ever since my GP diagnosed me with the lipoedema I have been looking into the ketogenic way of combating it. However, I am certain there are many more benefits besides.

However, I am not sure I am eating the right way as I have not yet managed to reach ketosis. My diet does include some fruit, veggies and berries, and also seeds and nuts. I cannot afford grassfed or organic food, so just do the best I can.

Here is an example of what I eat in a day:

Breakfast: Some slices of cheese and a handful of nuts.

Lunch: Cheesy omelette with bacon fried in butter. An avocado.

Dinner: Some minced meat and vegetables (peppers, mushrooms) fried in butter.

Dessert: Small cup of raspberries and blueberries drizzled with natural yogurt, chia seeds, pumpkin seeds and shredded coconut. 1 square of dark chocolate.

Afternoon snack: More cheese. Coffee with cream.

I also drink green tea throughout the day.

How long did it take you to reach ketosis? And what did you eat to maintain it? Any tips much appreciated.

#2

Why do you think you aren’t in ketosis?
And do you track your carbs?

I personally ate “worse” than you and it was no problem but we don’t all have the same ketosis carb limit, some items may interfere too, I think people talk about that, I only had to go low enough with my net carbs.
You should get into ketosis in a few days at most if you eat the right way. Some people get into ketosis on high-carb just because they don’t eat while sleeping so it can be quicker but it doesn’t require a long time.

Oh and I forgot: Welcome!

(Veronica) #3

Hi, and thank you for your reply :slight_smile: ! I must admit I’m not tracking anything or counting calories, I just tend to eat 1-2 main meals and a couple of snacks) cheese, nuts, a handful of seeds and berries) I do pile on the butter on my main meals, and have a healthy amount of cream in my coffee. But I have absolutely no idea how many calories I’m consuming in a day or how many carbs. I also do time restricted eating. I understand it’s different for everyone, and perhaps I already am in ketosis, but don’t know what signs to look for? I have been dealing with the keto flue, but am certainly not giving up this early. I am still waiting for the improved energy I have read about on keto. I guess it’s early days.

#4

You asked about ketosis so the carb intake is what matters. It doesn’t seem much but I can’t tell how much - it’s individual anyway but if you are below 20g, it’s almost sure you are in ketosis. You seem to eat okay but carbs easily add up.

I don’t know any sure sign for ketosis. I felt a tad different first and 7 weeks later my hunger drastically changed so I suppose it was fat adaptation, what else so I must have been in ketosis before…? Oh and water weight changes, I always had them when I went low enough with my carbs so that helped, my otherwise very stable weight changed in 1-2 days.
Other people have zillion other symptoms (at least in total, not zillion for each of them) but I feel the same in and off ketosis under normal circumstances.

Keto flu… Watch your electrolytes but maybe it’s a sign you are in ketosis…? Someone come and say something, I have no idea, never had keto flu. Or increased energy… Or increased mental clarity (it’s fine, I am okay with my brain normally). There are no guarantee for these, everyone’s experience is somewhat and sometimes very much different…

(Veronica) #5

I think I must be consuming more than the reccommended amount of carbs because of the veggies, nuts, seeds and berries which I eat to get enough fibre as that’s rather difficult on a ketogenic diet. But as you say carbs do add up so perhaps I am sabotaging myself a little. I have been thinking of lowering my veggies, but will be keeping the berries as they are my favourite snack of my day, that and coffee with cream. Do you do any exercise at all? I only walk 45min every morning but rest on the weekend. Thank you again for replying and thanks for the welcome :slight_smile:

(Robin) #6

You’re probably correct… it’s the amount of carbs in berries and veggies. Don’t worry about fiber. If you have issues with regularity, take some magnesium citrate at night in water 9most of us add salt.)

Do track your carbs. Try to stay under 20g daily. The rest will come.
Also don’t worry about checking to see if you are in ketosis. If you stay under 20g carbs, you are in ketosis. And judge your progress more by clothes, how they fit and how you feel. Weight can fluctuate while your body is changing.
Welcome!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

The key to getting into ketosis is to greatly restrict carbohydrate intake. We recommend a limit of 20 g/day. The reason for restricting carbohydrate is to avoid the insulin response to loading the body with glucose (which is what carbohydrates are). Insulin in the blood above a certain level causes the body to store fat and to metabolise glucose. Below that threshold, the body produces ketones and metabolises fat. The threshold is pretty much the same for everyone, 25 ÎĽU/mL, but whether a given amount of glucose will cause us to exceed it depends on how insulin-sensitive or -resistant we are. Some really insulin-resistant people will need to restrict carbohydrate even further.

Ketosis is a process of producing partially-metabolised fatty acids (the three ketone bodies are acetoacetate, acetone, and β-hydroxybutyrate), and it begins as soon as serum insulin drops low enough to permit it. This usually happens within a day or so of lowering glucose sufficiently.

There is a separate process, called “keto-adaptation” or “fat-adaptation,” in which the skeletal muscles re-adapt to metabolising fatty acids. It is a time of repair to certain metabolic pathways that have been damaged by metabolising too much glucose, and it normally takes around six or eight weeks. If you are an athlete, you might notice a dip in performance during that period. This is normal, and your performance will return.

Your diet looks pretty good, but you might want to take a close look at just how much carbohydrate you are actually eating. Some nuts have more carbs than others, likewise with the fruits. And it is easy to overdo peppers and mushrooms.

Lastly, what is your reason for thinking you’re not in ketosis? Unless you are actually measuring, you wouldn’t necessarily know. In any case, the rate of fat loss does not correlate with the level of ketones in the blood, and women in particular are often in need of a period of hormonal re-regulation before the fat loss actually begins. If you are still in the early days of eating this way, give it quite a bit of time before deciding it’s not working. And be sure to eat enough. When insulin is low, calories aren’t as important to worry about as getting enough of the right kinds of food.

#8

I do some minimal exercise, 50 hour walks normally, sometimes it’s twice as long (but in this weather I skip my walks, I rarely do that but it happens), I lift twice a week but I am a lazy one :slight_smile:
Exercise is very important for me, I wouldn’t have even this little energy without it.

I never cared about fiber, I probably eat quite much on my original keto, now it’s zero on my best days and it’s perfect :smiley: But I heard about many people who need some specific range, not my “everything is great between zero and really high”… I have my own problems regarding eating but fiber isn’t one of them.
Why is it difficult on keto? There are all the pure fibers, 0g net carbs… They aren’t normal food items but maybe they help if one needs fiber…? But I guess eating vegs can bring enough for most people…? And oily seeds. The carb content of flax is almost purely fiber, I ate much of it in the past… Now I eat tastier and better things.

(Veronica) #9

Hi, thanks for your reply :slight_smile: Today I decided to give the veggies a miss, but I still ate a very small cup of berries (blueberries and raspberries with seeds and shredded coconut)

In terms of fat and protein today I had a cheesy omelet, coffee with cream, some slices of cheese for a snack, and a small amount of yogurt.

I think that will be it for today as I also do time restricted eating. I will for example fast for 18 hours with a 6 hour eating window. This is more to lower insulin and achieve some kind of autophagy.

So … Some food for thought, I think I will try and give up veggies on days I have nuts, seeds and berries and vice versa, as I imagine I would lower my carbs a great deal doing only this. And I will take on board the advice of magnesium in terms of addressing the regularity. I already take salt (pink himalayan rock salt) for electrolytes, but have read potassium and magnesium supplements can be helpful there as well.

Since my goal is to reach ketosis I will have to continue lowering my carbs. I have already given up bread, all my favourite breakfast bars, my bags of dried fruit and my beloved dark chocolate, eating only a small square of it now, once a day. So … fingers crossed! :slight_smile:

#10

Raspberries are very low-carb and tasty too, it was my number one choice on keto (I mean, I tried to choose that if possible. my actual number one fruit was frozen banana) and I never had more than 3-5g carbs for them (banana fit into it perfectly but raspberry was like 1 :smiley: not in season, at least when I ate it frozen. I like frozen fruit, a little goes a long way). Raspberry was my “jam” fruit (I just crushed it raw and put it into my pancakes or other cakes) and my potential “bigger amount” fruit. But it’s so flavorful that a few is nice too if you ask me. I always was good at eating super tiny fruit on low-carb (but I still could eat 1-3 kg on some days using the “right” kind).

Chocolate has not much carbs if one uses the right kind… I make my own since ages (it has no cocoa butter so it’s not a real chocolate but the role is the same). Even 90% chocolate has so much carbs in it! Compared to mine, at least, it’s not so bad considering chocolate isn’t to eat galore. Past me wasn’t very aware about it yet but current me is an evolved one.

Good luck, I see you have ideas, they sound good :slight_smile:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

You can buy unsweetened chocolate and sweeten it with a non-sugar sweetener. I used to do that, heating the chocolate in the microwave, adding stevia/erythritol and heavy cream, and letting it set. It made a tasty sort of fudge.

Nowadays, however, if I want chocolate, I just eat a square or two of the unsweetened chocolate. It used to taste so bitter as to be unenjoyable; now it tastes nice.

(Veronica) #12

I only have 1 small square of my dark chocolate bar every day, but I will look into the unsweetened variety. I’ve though of buying some pure cocoa powder and some coconut milk and see if I could make hot cocoa on those days I really crave it.
Would you mind sharing with me a day of what you typically eat?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

My first meal of the day is usually around 2 p.m., and is usually left-over meat from the night before. My main meal is in the evening and usually consists of a meat and salad (with blue cheese dressing) or some vegetable, either buttered or in cheese sauce. If I need a snack, it is usually an emotional need, not hunger, and I try to keep it keto, either full-fat Greek yoghurt and heavy cream, or else pork rinds. I’ve kind of lost my taste for chocolate at the moment; haven’t bought any in a while. Occasionally I’ll have an apple, but I try to limit that. (At least the fibre helps slow down the absorption of the sugars.)

People keep leaving carbs around for me to trip over, which is dangerous, since I am a carb addict. I have found, however, that I don’t want anything too sweet anymore (weird, because my carb of choice was glazed doughnuts!), but boy, oh boy, is it hard to resist yeast bread, these days (there’s a local pizzeria we order from that gives you tiny loaves of fresh bread with every order). The carbs are a slippery slope, so I do try to behave, and I always feel better when I avoid them. At least I don’t binge on bread and pasta the way I used to as a carb-burner!

(Laurie) #14

I do think that cutting back here and there (e.g., on vegetables, berries, or nuts) will help. As others have suggested, do a reality check and keep track of carbs for a while. Good luck!

(Veronica) #15

Hi, I have thought the same thing, and am considering having these foods on different days, so, for instance, if I have some nuts (I keep to the keto friendly variety) I won’t have the berries and vice versa. I also think I was overdoing it with the vegetables, eating a whole pan full of fried mushrooms and peppers at the same time with the minced meat. So might instead just have the meat with a few brussel sprouts or asparagus. I have also been wondering if I’m overdoing it slightly with the fat but naturally if I succeed in lowering the carbs that shouldn’t really be a problem. I do count net carbs on a lot of things, but knowing the carb count on a small handful of nuts or berries is next to impossible. Same with cooked veggies such as broccoli or cauliflower. So I’m really just trying to keep to the best keto friendly foods, as I mostly eat unprocessed wholefoods and cook the food myself. So I look at what is considered keto friendly and eat that, but I will begin to adjust the amount of these foods I think, and see how that goes. It’s early days.

#16

You might like to try tracking with something like Cronometer (it’s free and you can use it on PC and/or phone) at least when starting out so you can get a good idea of the carb content of what you’re eating, if nothing else.

Then you’ll know what you can realistically fit into a day’s eating and still keep your carbs low enough, and can quit tracking again if it seems like too much hassle to keep up with : )

#17

I use cream but when I am a purist just some really good cocoa powder and water, who knew I could become such a purist? :smiley:
Very dark chocolate is awfully cocoa powder tasting to me, some of us needs fattier stuff, that’s why I do our own. My SO has 50% fat “chocolate”, mine is 60, we dislike each other’s. But I suppose there are various chocolates in the shops… Never checked them. I dislike over 70% chocolates and even the dark ones have way too much sugar (or maltitol. my own stuff is sweetened or not sweetened with whatever I please, to the extent I want, it comes handy when these things changes and even the family members want different things).

But I talked too much about chocolate, sorry, still a lovely topic for me, I just don’t often eat it anymore.

#18

Thank you, PaulL. This proves you are human. I feel less guilty. This weekend I will bake buckwheat bread.

(Veronica) #19

Thanks, I did a bit of carb tracking. I mean I tracked the foods I normally could eat in a day and it came to a total of 19 carbohydrates. And what I did to better calculate was I put 10 almonds instead of a handful, and 10 rasberries instead of a handful. 100 grams cheese, 3 egg omelette etc, so I was much more accurate in measuring the amount of food and so could also much better calculate the total amounts of carbs in each. I think my main problem at the moment with eating keto, and perhaps the reason I have been unsure whether I’m actually in ketosis, is that I’ve been dealing with fatigue which I put down to the keto flue. I do take salt and also make sure to salt my food. I drink plenty of water. But my body I figure is still adapting. Do you count net carbs or do you go by total carbohydrates?

#20

I personally count net carbs. Opinions on that vary here though, tbh. It’s working for me this way, so I’m happy to stick with that : )