Non-diabetic, slim, insulin sensitive


(Jo) #1

Hi all,
Great to meet you all!
I’m new to Keto but sure I want all the benefits the diet can give, thanks 2KetoDudes for all your great podcast info!

I have been trying to find more info aimed at an average person who is not over weight or affected by insulin sensitivity. It sounds incredible what all the diabetics can achieve and I’d like to be able to apply some of this knowledge to myself.

Can you point me in the direction of threads or groups for this kind of information? I have body composition data (eg. Female, 17% body fat, 79% muscle etc) I keep failing to stick to the diet over the course of only a week despite upping fat content and eating way more calories than ever before! I’m now putting on fat rather than maintaining it and cravings and binging are out of control! I’m concerned I’m now messing with my health.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Good luck to you all and congratulations on all your achievements
Jo
:hugs: x


(VLC.MD) #2

What are your goals ?
Any questions ?


(Jo) #3

My goals are to get back to my early 20s weight but with a bit more muscle, I am 33 and I have only put on about 6kg since then (apologies for saying I’m struggling to everyone really trying to tackle substantial weight loss!) but I’m am feeling increasingly aware that it is creeping on despite all my efforts and I want to get it under control before it becomes a problem.
I also want to achieve the mental clarity wellbeing and happiness that is promoted by the keto genie diet.
I have access to a Boditrax machine with lots of compositional data.

Please can you point me in the direction of more info for people like me?


(Allie) #4

What macros are you aiming at and what is a typical day of eating?


(Jo) #5

Aiming for 5:70:25% carb:fat:protein and keeping track with MyFitnessPal.

I usuall end up eating between 1200 and 1600cal but recent days have been so much higher and my appetite is unstoppable


(VLC.MD) #6

Try LCHF for a while. Say 40-80 carbs a day for 2-6 months ? Might be easier for you. Dietdoctor.com


(Allie) #7

Track protein grams not percentages as too much protein can cause problems, keep carbs below 20g at least while adapting - do not restrict fats or calories, do not keep yourself feeling hungry. If you’re restricting and always hungry then you’re setting yourself up to fail. Obey your hunger and nourish your body.


(Jo) #8

Thank you! I do feel like I’m following that for the most part, and I’m definitely not going too high on protein. Hunger as such is not an issue no grumbling tummy but even when feeling stuffed I’m still able to eat and actively looking for things to eat.
Is this normal?


(Allie) #9

It wouldn’t be normal for me. If I were having that problem, I would explore a possible deficiency of some sort, but that’s something you need to explore for yourself - it just makes me think there’s something the body is missing if there’s still a food desire when you feel stuffed, does that make sense?


(Erin Macfarland ) #10

Your caloric intake is quite low at those numbers you give for your body composition. I don’t think you should say you’re “binging” or “out of control” when you eat more because your body is just trying to get sufficient energy since you are lean. When I was about 12% body fat doing keto I had to eat enormous amounts of food to stay sufficiently fed. When you are lean and active (especially as a woman) you cannot rely on body fat for energy and for some of us keto means increasing our energy intake much higher than if we were eating a carb based diet. You will need to use caution and I would avoid fasting for long periods of time. You may even add weight because you’re undereating. I agree about trying a LCHF template which might be more sustainable and beneficial in the long run for someone with your body composition. Trust me, over the last several years I have learned a great deal about what happens when you are very lean and doing keto and I have made my share of mistakes. Eating enough is crucial. Don’t call eating a lot of food a “binge.” This implies that it’s wrong to feed your body. Active, lean women tend to undereat and especially on keto you need to make sure you’re taking in sufficient energy.


(Jo) #11

So if I eat more calories in the form of fat but keep carbs to 20% im not likely to gain weight?

I’ll also get some electrolytes, Nutrifiz seems to have some of the highest levels of Magnesium and Potassium, do you have any recommendations?


(Allie) #12

20 GRAMS not 20%


(Erin Macfarland ) #13

For someone who is as lean as you and active even 20% carbs is not going to harm your health. It might actually improve it. I don’t think the 20 gram limit is appropriate for someone who has such low body fat. This number is typically used as a guideline for those who have metabolic damage. For those who are fit and lean a higher carb intake most likely would be positive. This might set me up for criticism here but I think people need to adjust keto to their particular situation. You may even be underweight (or at least under fat) for your body, which also might be difficult to accept. Women usually do best at about 20% body fat. I myself got to 6% at my lowest point (when I was suffering from anorexia) and now I understand I need to be at around 20% for optimal health…ie having a menstrual cycle, sufficient energy, not being freezing all the time. Make sure you have healthy ideas about what a female needs to maintain health. It’s very different from what a lean male can tolerate.


(Allie) #14

Once adapted possibly, but not in early stages.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #15

This is very wise of you. If I had only known what you know when I was your age! :thumbsup: Welcome to the forums!

Have you been restricting calories up till now? Your hunger may be your body’s way of trying to assure a steady supply of enough energy. Women are often trained to be so scale-focused that they cut calories to the point where the body has to sacrifice lean body mass. Then when they go keto, the scale doesn’t budge, because their bodies are finally able to put on muscle. It’s possible that you are actually losing fat, even if you’re gaining weight—remember that muscle is denser than fat, so that a gain in muscle weight can offset a loss of fat weight, but you can still lose inches.

However, you might want to take a look at what you’re eating and look for hidden carbohydrate. The way the dietary labeling laws work, a product can contain sugar, but they can say 0 grams because they’ve picked the right portion size. So look through the ingredient list for sugars of various kinds: evaporated cane juice (table sugar), dextrose (table sugar), maltodextrin (sugar)—you get the idea. The carbohydrate in these products can add up significantly without your realizing it. Also try to cut back on artificial sweeteners, because in many people they can spike insulin levels. Your whole goal here is to keep insulin low, so that your body can burn its stored fat.

Also take a look at how much protein you’re eating. You will see a debate on these forums about how much protein is too much, but Dr. Stephen Phinney, who coined the term “nutritional ketosis” and who has been researching it for decades. recommends around 0.8 to 1.25 g daily per kg of lean body mass, depending on your activity level. (If that amount seems low, remember that even meat is only roughly 25% protein.)

The rest of the ketogenic way of eating is to eat fat to satiety. Since fat is highly satisfying, most people find it very hard to overeat on a well-formulated ketogenic diet, unless there is something wrong with their hormonal signaling. It doesn’t mean that you won’t experience cravings for carbohydrate—I certainly still do—but the sensation of satiety is unmistakable once you learn to recognize it. But don’t count calories, and don’t try to restrict calories, either. The body reacts to a restricted-calorie diet by hoarding fat and lowering your metabolic rate. Better to not eat anything, than to restrict calories. But if you give your body enough energy, it relaxes and starts burning stored fat. There is even one documented case of a study participant who, by eating to satiety, consumed 3,000 to 3500 calories daily during the study—but he still lost weight at the same rate as the other participants.

So give ketosis a good three months or so, before making up your mind whether it’s working for you or not. It can take a while to become fat-adapted and to start seeing the real benefits of this way of eating. In the meantime, keep calm and keto on!


(Jo) #16

Great thanks guys, I’ll keep going with the low carb plan and trust that it will start to make sense. I am intrigued by the idea of a deficiency. I’ll try taking a few supplements to see if there are any improvements.

Also on board with giving in to not calorie restricting, it feels a bit weird thinking it’s ok to eat so much of the food I’ve thought of as bad for so long!


(Charlie Kathopoulis) #17

Nicely put @PaulL


#18

Yeah, eating this way scared the crap out of me at first. Decades of propaganda will do that to you. Good luck!


(Saleem) #19

I am basically in the same boat. i have been following a keto lifestyle since 2014 (on and off). A lot of people are unable to understand while i do practice a keto lifestyle. I am a very fit and active person with no health issues at all. (I have never had a Body fat above 10%).

I recently did an experiment… I increased my Kcal intake while maintaining ketosis.
As u see form the attached files i have gained .9Kg weight wise increased MM .6Kg and lost .3kg of fat.(note i do work out).

The point of this was to see if you can increase muscle mass and drop body fat at the same time. i hope this helps.

KCKO

body analysis.pdf (1.1 MB)


#20

I’m also lean and active was ~18-20bf when I started keto/IF lifestyle mostly for the long term health benefits(im a male btw and cut the IF out) It took me a solid month to just start eating enough fat cals. I lost 15 lbs the first 3-4 weeks. Dam fat phobia! My family thought something was wrong but it was all fat weight I’m now at 10%(DEXA scan). And working on gaining lean muscle mass without adding bf.
You need to exhaust your stored glycogen that’s what keeping you so hungry all the time. You have to become fat adapted.
A week isn’t long enough to do anything but make your body anger. Your body is going to fight you when coming off carbs(carb are almost like a drug addiction). You just need to clamp down and get thru the keto flu(up your salt by at least 2x) and fat phobia(eat more good fats) that strangles us when we start down the road of the keto lifestyle. Get the 20g net carbs and 20% protien and fill in the rest with fat. If you like salads use those for a vehicle for oils & dressings. I have a spinach salad(6cups the entire container) once a day with a tablespoon of :avocado:, hemp and dressing, 425 cals 95% fat 3% carbs and 2% protein will add a protein to it also. The greens will help keep you fuller longer(lots of volume 40 cals 4g carbs and 2g fiber net 2g)
Also try a macros tracker, I use MFP. When eating keto doesn’t seem like your eating enough cause the meals look smaller they’re just calorie dense. You seem to be looking at food volume not cals. Your just over eating if you gaining BF. Hit you carb and protein and fill the rest with fat. Keto seems to be custom diet and recommendations are just a starting point. You’ll need to fine tune it to your body.
Good luck.