No positive results. Seeking advice


(Keith Bronsdon) #1

OK, new to keto. On it for a month. Met two colleagues recently (both younger than I) who lost a ton of weight on keto. Been thinking about trying it for the past few months. I’ve lost around 20 pounds by lots of exercise and eating healthy over a year or two but then stalled out and now bored. First two weeks of the pandemic, I sat around and stress-ate lots of carbs. Could not work out, but started running again thinking I better keep moving before I go backwards. Realized, perhaps now is a good time to try keto!

I’m 48, 6’1, was 203lb a few months ago. I once got an InBody scan at my gym (supposedly highly accurate) that told me I need 1960 calories per day to survive. That has been my calorie intake for the last year that I try not to exceed and very slowly I’ve been losing through exercise and a low fat, low carb, high protein diet.

I have been treated for depression for years, but as best I know the meds do not cause me weight gain. I am not aware of any large changes due to medication changes (which can be common).

First two weeks on keto I was not using a keto app to track. I was using a different one that I had used to track calories before keto, and wanted to transition into keto anyway. After two weeks of transitioning (learning what to eat etc) I switched to a keto specific app called KetoDiet. It’s a much better app for calories tracking. But setting up that app, assuming it’s using averages, it tells me that my calorie intake should be 2474 daily. I was thinking that might not be correct for me, only that the InBody numbers were measured using electrical Impedence, not averages. That’s a 500 calorie difference!! In the course of a week, that’s a whole pound. Once using this app, I noticed how different the macro numbers between the apps were: less protein and less carbs on KetoApp. Obviously more fat than the previous app.

Been tracking everything I eat. (For Gods sake I’m weighing iceberg lettuce!) I try to be very exact. I love eating cheese, but of course keeping my protein intake in mind. I find it very easy to max out on protein. Lately been less worried on this as I see it’s not as crucial as the carb max. For the last two weeks, my average calorie intake is 1920, since I’ve been using 2000 as my max, not 2474. My macros have averaged 6% carbs, 21% protein, and 74% fats (app’s target goals for me are 5%, 15%, 80%).

I run 45-60 minutes around 5 days a week. I have morning coffee (with heavy cream) then go running on an empty stomach. I am not very active while at work since I’m sitting most of the time.

I have not owned a scale for many years, and used to weigh myself at the gym every Monday morning. Since I can’t go to the gym while it’s closed, I can’t monitor my weight, so I bought a scale. First weigh in on new scale was 209. Massive disappointment. Realizing many things at work here–different scales give different weights, sooo hoping that’s a factor. My 203 weight was in early April: I was 208 fully clothed at the doctor for a checkup. I came home and weighted my clothes and shoes at 5 lbs. (That was on a food scale, so accuracy may not be great)

I have been using Keto urine strips for two weeks. (Yes, I know they are not the most accurate.) I’ve never been much into ketosis according to them. The most Ive seen is maybe “small” at 1.5 mmol/l perhaps once or twice, but usually register myself at “trace” of 0.5. Most of my “trace” readings are first thing in the morning. Most of my readings other times are negative, though usually later in the day.

I have not been aware of the keto flu. Several times have had periods when I’ve felt bad, it seemed more like my periodic depression. Was not what I’d call flu-like symptoms.

Through reading posts and seeing a number of Keto youtube videos, I see lots of conflicting info. So confused as to what I’m doing right and wrong. I’ve seen things that make me think I"m not eating enough fat, but according to the app, I’m maxing out on protein and carbs almost daily, and should be eating another 500 cal in fats. But I do feel like I’m barely eating any protein (95 gram goal). Overall I often feel like I’m not eating enough since I often don’t feel full. Fat being calorie dense I also think I’m getting my calories in on less volume of food. But confused on how many calories I should eat and what should I increase IF not eating enough.

Stepping on the scale and weighing in at 209 was a real heartbreaker after all the running I’ve been doing.


I see keto as a simple concept: “Minimal carbs. Adequate proteins. Fats as needed (for satiety).”

The proteins macro, which should be based on lean body mass, is a lower limit, while the carbs and fats macros are upper limits.

95 grams of protein seems on the low side?

For you, is “not feeling full” the same as “hungry”, or are they different?

(Polly) #3

Moving to keto from a caloric defecit regime albeit a low fat/low carb one means that your body may well have some healing to do before it settles in to weight loss. As a man of 6’1’’ in height and 203lb in weight you have been restricting yourself to 1960 calories which is probably not enough. Your low fat diet has probably also left you malnourished.

My advice, for what its worth, is to stop counting anything except limiting your carbs to as low below 20g per day as you can manage. Enjoy your three or even two meals but do not snack. Eat real food. Avoid anything processed. Eventually your body will reward you.

(Keith Bronsdon) #4

When I say “hungry” I mean my stomach isn’t growling. Really, that rarely happens anyway. I tend to not “feel full” after many meals. I often eat a really large salad for lunch which makes me feel full, but it’s a lot of lettuce. If I snack, it’s been on portioned pieces of cheese, nuts, salami.

I’ve been trying to stick to low protein. The only carbs I eat are within other things. I do feel like it’s a pretty low amount of protein, but Im sticking to the app’s guide. Very easy to go beyond it.

Update: I installed my new scale’s phone app, which gives me more data than just the weight. It also has a general scale of low to high (“exceed”).
139.4lb muscle mass “enough”
29.7% BF “exceed”
14 visceral fat “high/exceed”
7.4 lb bone mass “normal”
1716 BMR “low”
50% body water “low”


I think that it is really hard to switch from one diet to another. I have a friend with the same problem. She is still all aboutt eating a few carrots and a bit of lean chicken for lunch and not getting anywhere near anything fatty. With keto you eat the steak and do not cut off the fatty bits. She just cannot understand that keto is a totally different way of eating because the foods you are supposed to eat on keto were always forbidden before. With all your sports you have been doing high protein and low fat before- and now you are asked to wrap your head around something totally different too. Good grief since childhood I was told to drink my orange juice in the morning. Now orange juice is about the worst thing you can do to yourself! :rofl: Keto is called keto because the carbs matter most of all. Keeping those carbs below 20g/ day is really mandatory to even be considered “keto”. Otherwise one is doing something more along the lines of low carb than keto… The thing about keeping the carbs SO low, is that we can then afford to eat more fats instead. And the aim is to start burning body fat and not blood glucose for energy. So if you have not been in ketosis and in the beginning the urine strips really should show this, then you will also not get the keto flu. If I eat above 20g of carbs I dont lose any weight, and I think eating too many carbs PLUS high fat is a recipe to gain weight fast. And after a while on keto- the most amazing thing is to experience a loss of appetite. It is all about the insulin. Carbs create insulin excretion and insulin is inflammatory and causes fat to be stored. By lowering the glucose in the blood insulin makes us HUNGRY. Keto as well as Atkins is about making insulin excretion minimal. When the hunger suddenly vanishes to a greater extent- then we can start the phase of intermittent fasting. In the beginning on keto I ate eggs and bacon for breakfast every day and I did not limit the amount of bacon! Yum! I lost weight anyway. Now I am not hungry in the morning and lately I only begin to eat after 2pm. Now I am doing 18/6 and it isn’t hard because of keto. It is the ability to do any kind of fasting ( 16/8 or 18/6 or 20/4 and even extended fasting) which is what causes the really big and fast weight loss. I am not in a big rush, so I will take it as it comes but am staying with keto. If I lose 20 kilos in a whole year that would be great, even if my goal is to lose 40. KCKO. My point is watch your carbs most of all. Keep them as low as possible. If you feel hungry eat more fats.I think eating salad is something that sticks in your mind as “healthy” from your former diet. Well if you are going to eat salad than make it with some good rich caesar salad dressing with a lot of fat in it. I make mine with a dollope of mayonnaise and olive oil, and eggs and avocado plus bacon bits on top, and then the endive or iceberg salad and other so called healthy stuff. I would be hungry after just a simple salad as well, without fatty stuff add ons. And protein used to be your concentration focus. Make that carbs for now and keep them under 20g

(Full Metal KETO AF) #6

Keith you’re making all this way too hard on yourself and you’re so right about how much contradiction and confusing KETO info there is out there. I feel so lucky as I found this place early on like you have. There will be contradiction here too because we’re individuals but the truth tends to be left through debate here so it’s easier to sort out. I’ve tried lazy dirty keto, strict tracking of macros, carnivore/ ZC, and now I’m just doing things easy and natural, listening to my body’s needs.

First, eat your meat bro! :cut_of_meat::poultry_leg::meat_on_bone::fried_shrimp::bacon: Fatty meat is better meat generally. Eat protein till you’re full at a meal, don’t gorge yourself but eat a nice steak for dinner and three or four eggs and a pile of bacon for breakfast if you want. I eat anywhere up to about 150g of protein if I want it, more often more like 100-130g. So enjoy meat without worry.

You don’t need to fill up on green salads. Eat vegetables if you like them and want to but they aren’t a requirement at all. But I would never make a salad without a good amount of protein a meal. I add meat to salads as a main course. This will be your main carb source so not too much!

Don’t be low fat, that’s not keto. Right now eating more fat will help your body adjust to burning fat as fuel in the absence of significant carbs for energy. Adding fat will increase your physical and mental energy. Add some butter to your steamed broccoli, don’t skimp on olive oil in a salad, have some cheese or sour cream if you like it. Melt a piece of butter on the steak! Make cheese sauce or whatever you like that you’ve been deprived of because of fat, just limit your carbs to less than 20g. per day. It’s really easy just through food choices mostly.

It’s a good idea to weigh and track your food for carbs starting out. Don’t worry about the others just focus on being a carb elimination expert. After you learn to be a pretty good judge of things you can put away the tracking app and scale and eat what you know is okay just checking a new food you want to introduce now and then. I’m 60 and started at your weight Sept 2018. You look a lot more fit and muscular so will loose less but within a year I had lost 65 lbs eating mostly how I’m suggesting. It’s simple and this is a great place to start.

The very last thing I would add is to ditch calculation of calories you need to adhere to. A calorie is not a calorie, where the calorie comes from is of primary importance because carb, fat and protein calories are all dealt with differently by our bodies. KETO is not about caloric restriction, it’s about carb restriction. It’s what’s missing from all the weight loss scheme diets. It’s how we should eat for the best health and body composition. A ketogenic diet heals your broken hormonal responses to food and hunger and restores a natural balance through a built in feedback loop between your gut and your brain. Counting and restricting calories is necessary when you’re eating a high carb diet or you blow up like a balloon without ever feeling like you’ve been eating too much usually. That’s the beauty of eating keto is not being hungry or low energy to lose fat and gain muscle and bone. So if you work and play hard your weight loss may be less but your waist loss will show and your muscle and bone mas can increase, sounds good for anyone right? I wish you luck and look forward to seeing you around the forum Keith. :cowboy_hat_face:


You’ll get it man, tracking may seem like a pain but it’s the only way to figure yourself out. On both the good and bad new, InBody scans suck. They are NOT accurate. They’re better than ones we have in our bathrooms, but only little. Hydration levels, how moisturized the bottom of your feet and hands are can REALLY screw with them. I’ve literally sat there and pissed off my gym by using it, then lotioning up my hands and feet and doing it again, changed my BF% by like 8 points. Plus you have to use them when your borderline dehydrated.

THAT said, don’t be afraid of protein, if you like it, eat it. The GNG monster isn’t going to turn it into McDonald’s in your stomach. If you’re not loosing at what you’re eating, drop your cals a little. Play with it and be consistant until you find your sweet spot but don’t ever go below 1400 or so, if you can loose at that point you need to start reverse dieting to get your metabolism up. You don’t want to wind up in the calorie trap, NOT a good place to be.

I had my RMR tested after MONTHS of no progress and mine came back at 1700, which is completely terrible sure enough I dropped it a little below that and big surprise I started loosing. It can be hard to find that point on your own, I lift weight most days and do cardio a couple times a week, have a physical job and I would have NEVER guess with all that my metabolism was that slow. Takes a long time to build back up which is why you don’t want your cals too low for too long. You’ll “adapt” to it aka slow down. There is no set amount of fat you need to eat, and you don’t have to find creative ways to fat-ify things that wouldn’t be otherwise. Just don’t shy away from it. Keep those carbs low and eat enough protein to maintain or build muscle. Fat can fill whats left… or not. Fat isn’t a goal. You’re going to constantly play with your macros, don’t let an app dictate them.

(Keith Bronsdon) #8

Thanks. I’m just frustrated that after all this work I’ve done I don’t see any progress. I didn’t think I had a slow metabolism, but now I’m wondering, as how can I run 45-60 minutes 4-5 days a week and gain weight? That does not make sense. I am now questioning my weight was at 203. I’ve been avoiding protein and not liking it ( because I love protein), but enjoying eating cheese, butter and heavy cream. All my carbs come from vegetables. Not eating flat out carbs (pasta, bread, sugar).

(Keith Bronsdon) #9

Definitely want to be eating more meat. Have been enjoying bacon and fatty carnitas and full fat sausage, but in moderation, so I don’t go over my protein limit. I have been thinking that the amount I eat does not seem like “moderate” protein, it seems like very little protein. The app amount has me at 95 grams which is very easy to max out. I think what I’m most confused about is the calorie intake. I’m running a lot for exercise, but how can I be gaining weight? I don’t seem excessively hungry as if my metabolism has increased. Does not make sense to me. Also confused on my calorie intake. I do feel like I’m not eating much, but I’ve been staying near what i thought my BMR of 1960 cal. But the app wants me at 2500. If I increase anything, it’s purely in the fats area to gain those calories. The app has my net carbs limit at 31 grams , and all are coming from vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage etc.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #10

Definitely a bit perplexing but some things come to mind. One is that you do a lot of cardio. First thing you might think is I’m burning a lot of calories running so I should lose weight faster. But that creates a lot of cortisol, a stress hormone that raises insulin. This causes your body to hold on to fat.

You might be under eating with your size and the amount of physical activity. Your BMR will change to match your food intake and activity levels. In order for your body to let go of fat stores it needs to feel like you aren’t over taxing it and that there’s plenty of food. Eating more fat will ramp up your BMR so you get more used to fat as fuel, and start to become fat adapted in maybe 5-6 weeks from now. You can ease back on fat then and just start judging how much fat by how you feel.

I’m not saying that running is bad, it’s great. But it might work against your fat adaptation and weight loss early on. Maybe give it a break for a short time, or run one or two days and brisk walk the other days. Some people do go up in weight the first month but most are overweight enough that some water weight is lost fast, during the first two weeks. Since you don’t sound like you were really very overweight to begin with your experience could be different. Do your pants and shirts feel looser? Does your face look leaner? KETO isn’t about weight loss so much as body recomposition and lowering body fat percentage. After all you want to lose fat, not weight. If you could maintain your current weight and drop to 10% body fat wouldn’t that be more desirable than just losing generic “pounds”? :cowboy_hat_face:


Make a lovely sauce béarnaise to go with your steak! Its allowed now and oh so yummy. It made my ketones skyrocket.


Without weight training it makes perfect sense. Constant cardio will slow down the metabolism every time. Running makes our bodies “adapt” to what you’re trying to make it do. Runners become very efficient at conserving calories (energy), muscle is the enemy of the runner, which is why our body de-prioritizes it. Muscle mass burns a TON of calories, which is NOT what you want if you’re a runner. More muscle mass = faster metabolism = eating more and not gaining. What are you taking in for protein? Hopefully not low, that WITH the running will just speed that up.


I eat more protein than you do and I’m a 57 yo female, 5’3". You might be under eating protein, but I’m not an expert. Hope you figure this out soon! I eat what I feel my body is asking for, but track to see where that gets me.

(Keith Bronsdon) #14

I feel like I’m doing everything right but not getting anywhere. Some I need to change something. I’d like to gain muscle, but that was always hard for me when lifting weights. I’ve been in fat loss mode for a while and stalled out at 203. Then the pandemic happened. Hence all the running. Honestly I don’t like cardio. Boring. I did it to jump start my metabolism to help the keto kick in. Overall I just want to slim down at the moment. I’m starting to think what i need to do get my metabolism up, and I know not eating isn’t the way to do that. Running was supposed to help that.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #15

Keith as @lfod14 noted running a lot will slow your metabolism to conserve energy for what you’re demanding from your body. Cardio is the enemy of weight loss. Look into heavy weight lifting twice a week. HIIT could be your ticket to gaining muscle and losing fat. :cowboy_hat_face:


If you’re going for therapeutic stuff that’s awesome, but high ketones don’t equal faster fat loss.

(Keith Bronsdon) #17

Yes be turned to running as I can do it outside. No end in sight to my gym being closed. Here in LA the stay at home order has been extended three months.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #18

Look into exercises where you use your body weight instead of external weights. Pull ups, push ups, squats…old school like the military does. You can work out a HIIT program with that as well.


(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #19

Unlike carb hunger, protein hunger is pretty reliable. You may eat a lot one day and the next day just not feel like it. But it averages out and we tend to eat to the proper amount naturally. Don’t restrict your protein, especially at first. Really, protein and fat macros are not recommendations, they are observations. When you restrict your carbs the other two macros fall into place.

There are exceptions to every rule and some health conditions may mean you have to tweak things. But at first, just keep carbs low.

Exercise is great for health in many ways, but give it a rest at first. Allow your body to become fat adapted before pushing it. Be kind to your body and let it make one change at a time. Diet first. Exercise added later.

Welcome to the forum, and I wish you well on your health journey!


Don’t be a slave of numbers especially if it’s an app’s numbers and no app have much idea about your unique needs.
I am a not very active short woman but 95g protein is unrealistic for me, I go way higher. It feels good so why not? But fat works too as long as it’s in my meat and other protein sources. Added fat leaves me hungry. And to me, fatty meat is the best satiation wise. 13 eggs, some cheese and whatnot just can’t cut it as I realized yesterday. Of course we aren’t robots so some days many of us need significantly more food, it’s normal.
These things are very very personal, figure out what works for you. Infos are conflicting because we are different.
Keep your carbs low and listen to your body if your communication is working well. maybe try out different things. but if keto is new to you, just get satiated and don’t worry about losing yet. Maybe it will happen right away, maybe later. If it won’t, you can change something in your diet. But getting used to keto is the important thing now.