No one wants to hear it


#173

Guy who lives next door to me has gone keto, an Irishman who was very overweight. He kept stopping me when he saw me and asking what sort of diet I was on…I said keto…he took it up and is 8 kilos down in his first fortnight.

My mother’s previous nursing home quite a few of the staff are now keto. All the diabetic staff are, as far as I know.

I don’t have a job where I see people daily and don’t have any disinterested chatter from people who aren’t really interested (if you know what I mean)…if people ask me they want to know for themselves.

I keep it very, very simple. I say I eat meat fish chicken with occasional veg and no fruit or cereal, no bread.
If I’m not hungry I don’t eat and I tell them if they want more information go to the 2 keto dudes and listen to the first 4 episodes.

I have no investment in anyone else doing keto unless they are interested for themselves and want to reverse diabetes or a metabolic disorder. I’m not into explaining usually to people who want to lose a small ammount of weight cause it isn’t what I know about. A lot of weight, yes, 'cause inevitably those people are insulin resistant and not even diagnosed and nothing else will work.

I did have one rather brilliant surgeon who was very interested and I made quite an effort to write him a lot of detail about how I had made it work for me.

I never say low carb. I say I eat protein and healthy fat.
You can lead a horse to water…


(Bob M) #174

I have a hard time with this. I often cook steaks of some sort (say, top round/sirloin) in our sous vide, then take them to work still in the bag. I then drain the bag into a cup and drink the liquid. Even my wife gets freaked out about this, and the people at work would pass out. I also then have to cut my steak into smaller bits, and gently reheat in the micro (I usually have somewhat cold meat, just to get out of the tiny kitchen at work, which also has coffee in the same space), and since I add things like blue cheese, I tend to get the smells out of there as fast as I can.

But everyone believes saturated fat and red meat are bad for them. And what am I eating a lot of these days? Red meat and its (perceived) saturated fat. (Most people don’t realize that the fat in red meat is primarily monounsaturated…) Or eggs (and red meat), another one that seems to always be in the press as being deadly.

And, I eat a pound or more of meat at a sitting, so people get freaked. For instance, I had four 6-ouce burgers last night (24 ounces of meat) with my wife’s brother and his wife, and I could tell my wife’s brother’s wife was a bit freaked out. Oh yeah, these were cheeseburgers…and I added some bacon to them.


(hottie turned hag) #175

I can do this easy and I am a wee female. It’s fun af to do in front of folk :smile:


(Old Baconian) #176

Bone is dynamic, however, and it responds to the load. As the load lightens, expect changes in bone as well. If you lose bone and muscle because they are no longer needed to hoist around a lot of extra fat, that is not unhealthy. Autophagy is your friend.


(Bob M) #177

I think part of this is because many people are eating 5-6 “meals” per day. When you’re down to 1-2 meals per day, those meals will be bigger. I ate breakfast yesterday, only because we went to breakfast after church, but then I did not eat again until 6 pm. About 8 hours between meals, then two meals in one day.

And, I think there is some calorie benefit to low carb/keto. If you’re peeing out or breathing out ketones, you’re losing energy that isn’t going to your body. I don’t think this is a huge number of calories, but it is some. So, I can eat a bit more per meal, since my meals are mainly or exclusively meat anyway. (Yesterday, I had my burgers on greens with tomatoes, onion, mustard, pickles, pickled hot peppers, so some carbs and veggies. Everyone else had buns, and the 13 year old vegetarian was shocked I didn’t eat bread.)


(Old Baconian) #178

It depends, but as you say, it does count as energy expenditure. We also exhale most of the H2O and CO2 produced by fatty acid metabolism, though that’s not excreting energy per se. (“Pair say,” for those who spend most of their time on the Internet. I went through a phase where that really fazed me, but I’m over it now.)


(Brian) #179

“No one wants to hear it.”

I’ve found that very few really want to talk about it. They don’t want more than just a few word answer. They want a sound bite. And that’s generally what they get from me.

“I cut the carbs and sugar.” That might be about all they get. If they’re truly interested, we can talk about it. But it’s very rare anyone wants to go any farther than that.

Most of the people that hear it will latch on to the “sugar” and agree that sugar is bad, sometimes while continuing to wolf down their huge cream-filled sugar coated iced donut, along with their sugary soft drink of choice… all of which I’m pretty happy to ignore.

I do me. They can do them. I’m happy to share when I really think it will be heard. Not interested in arguing, my results speak for themselves. Out of about 200 people that know me, about 2 have actually paid attention and had an open mind about it.

FWIW…


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #180

@ctviggen @PaulL “It does count as energy expenditure”. You bet it does! I experienced what I am convinced was a BIG acetoacetate ‘burn off’ or ‘blow out’ (however you prefer to think of acetoacetate break down into acetone and CO2) which I described here:

My initial guess is that a lot of acetoacetate in my blood suddenly decided to go ‘poof’. That in turn released a lot of acetone which showed up as a big spike in BrAce. Now I happen to know from my understanding of thermodynamics that when something that contains energy ‘goes poof’ the energy has to go somewhere. I suspect in this case it went as heat into the blood.

This followed eating a substantial amount of coconut oil some time beforehand which caused a spike in BrAce of nearly 50ppm. That’s about the equivalent of spiking one’s β-hydroxybutyrate from about 3mmol/L to 6mmol/L. This was followed by a ‘crash’ of more than 60ppm! The spike of BrAce before the ‘crash’ as acetoacetate disintegrated en masse is what I experienced as very significant heating:

I did experience a sudden rise in temperature. Not like a hot flash, but a distinct heating that was severe enough to make me feel uncomfortably warm. I thought I would soon break into a sweat and even bought a can of spray deodorant on my way to work to make sure I did not become offensive. The heat passed after a couple of hours fortunately.

Here are the BrAce plots for the day (May17) of the spike/crash and the next day (May18) which is typical.


(Susan) #181

Thanks so much, yes I am determined, even if a bit frustrated at the moment =).


(Bob M) #182

There are multiple studies showing a slight calorie advantage for low carb/keto, depending on how you read them. If you’re Kevin Hall, you ignore it. Eg:

https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2017/08/20/kevin-hall-kickstarter-and-catching-up/

https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2016/05/06/contradictions-and-cognitive-dissonance-the-kevin-hall-effect/


('Jackie P') #183

@ctviggen, @FrankoBear and @BlueViolet, when I first started and I wanted to tell people, they didn’t want to know, but now that I am obviously thinner, and looking better in every way, they watch me!
On a night shift, whilst they are eating their wholemeal sandwiches and low fat yogurts, I take a perverse pleasure in dipping slices of bacon into mayo and then eating a few spoonfuls … what’s that? Clotted cream. …mmm so yummy! I have no desire, but I would love to shove a lump of lard in my mouth! :grin:brings out the nawty kid in me!
Then, later, when they are eating fruit, snacks whatever, they have asked “so do you have breakfast when you get home”? Oh no I say, I won’t eat again until 6pm! I can see them wondering …:blush:


(Susan) #184

It sounds like fun, I would enjoy doing things like that as well. Maybe one of them will ask more one day and try Keto =).


(Cynthia Anderson) #185

I used to say the same thing. I can’t give up bread, soda, etc.

When I was ready I did.
I haven’t been perfect keto and I may not be keto for life but I’ll never go fully back to my old way of eating.

I’m down 40 lbs and 8 dress sizes. I’ll be low carb for life.


(PJ) #186

Holy cats! That’s incredible! WONDERFUL.


(PJ) #187

Bob, when my kid was young and I was new to lowcarb, we made what we called “godzilla burgers” – chuck burger with crumbled blue cheese or gorgonzola, and a tiny bit of mustard, and some montreal seasoning, and cooked them on the foreman grill. (Sometimes bacon & cheese, yeah!) Kept 'em in the fridge so we could nuke one any time. She lost 5 pants sizes (she was 12 and chubby) and so happy. Protein is the bomb. I can easily down a 20oz sirloin at Texas Steakhouse (and if I were rich would just have them deliver to my door daily lol), and more. I don’t have too big a satiating-stop effect from protein. Except eggs. 4 eggs max and I am stuffed no matter what. Neither protein nor fat affects me that way. It’s something specific to eggs, go figure.


(Bob M) #188

That’s interesting about eggs. At one time, I thought I was allergic to eggs, as a chiropractor told me I was after a test, but I’ll be darned if I can tell how. I have no symptoms at all when I eat eggs (contrast that with hot/spicy peppers, where I instantly get congested, runny nose, etc.). I can eat 5 eggs, though, and still eat a lot of meat with it. On the other hand, give me yogurt (the full fat stuff), and I could eat an entire quart of it. With handfuls of macadamia nuts.

I do think protein is an individual thing. I have had great success with eating low fat meats (sirloin, shrimp, mussels, liver, heart, ham) and getting full for quite some time, and less success using fat. But I’ve seen others say that’s not true. It may also be that I “use” all my protein, as I lift weights (sometimes my body weight) to failure.

I think Jacqueline’s comment is true about people and eating fat. After being indoctrinated in low fat for 30+ years, I will look at something that’s high fat and still remark to myself how high in fat it is. Now, I eat it, though.


(PJ) #189

Whole turkeys are 1.68/lb at my local walmart. Their precooked seasoned rotisserie chickens, whole small chicken, are 5.95/ea in the deli. 36 eggs bought at once is 1.71/36 (0.05c ea).

Not sure if you’ve considered those things but they’re probably the best protein money. When I got laid off I spent some time working out the cost of things per protein gram – which if I’m poor is where I have to focus. I live in a small city where there’s only two grocers, WM and a small one at twice the price. The small one sometimes has ‘5 for $25’ meat specials (but you gotta freeze or eat the meat immediately). But generally that’s the best protein-gram cost I could find.


(Susan) #190

Awesome, congrats =).


(Old Baconian) #191

I believe it was Dr. Kendrick who pointed out that Kevin Hall presented a poster on as-yet unpublished data that directly contradicted the data themselves. . . . :man_facepalming:


#192

Well, it finally happened. Someone at work noticed, and took up Keto!
I had to stop off at work today, and saw one of my co-workers who I rarely see anymore (due to odd scheduling). She knew I was doing Keto, and had inquired about it a few months ago. Today, she told me, “I started your diet” and giggled. She was smiling and happy, and excited to be on her 4th day.
I’ve got extra grass fed beef in the freezer from our last cow, so, I’m going to surprise her, and drop some off at her apartment this week. A little something to help encourage her along the way! So happy!!!