No ketosis

(Herbert ) #1

I came out of ketosis just after New Year after eating too much sugar on Christmas day. I have read that when you have been in ketosis for 3 months, you can go out of ketosis for a short period, and return again. Likewise, I also got (as you may know if you have read my last post) measured for high cholesterol. Which brought me a little out of balance.

For the last 3 -4 days I have been trying hard to get into ketosis, the fat I consume is primarily the healthy fat, olive oil, MCT and the like.

the problem is that over the course of the day I measure my blood sugar to around 4.0 - 4.2. Since I have not consumed sugar for a long time, ie over the 4 days, my sugar depots are empty.
At the same time I make measurements of my blood with keto strips, and they have in the time I have mentioned shown 0.1 mmol / l which indicates that no ketone substance is present.
Last night before bedtime it was 3.8 on sugar and 0.1 koto

Due to the fact that no ketones are produced at all, I have several periods during my working day where I get quite dizzy and it all sails. I then eat some walnuts and almonds (30 g) and it helps a little.

There is also another thing: At night I wake up in the middle by my arms “sleeping” as there is not enough blood coming to them, I do not usually experience that.

Question: Could I have contracted a disease so that the liver can no longer produce ketones?
It is difficult and uncomfortable to walk for weeks and be unsure about to fall over from dizziness.
Are here someone that can guide me.

(Polly) #2

In your shoes, I would be more worried by the dizziness and “dead” arms in the night than any measurement on a ketometer. Have you consulted a medical practitioner about these symptoms?

If you eat nuts to stave off dizzy spells (which is totally understandable) you are likely to trigger a small insulin response and switch off fat burning and ketone production.

If you can manage it, try to eat on no more than three occasions in a day and keep your total carbs below 20g and you will return to ketosis. You do not say whether you are a diabetic, but if you are not diabetic the other sure-fire way to achieve ketosis is a 48 hour fast when taking nothing but water and black tea or coffee.

In any event, good luck and do let us know how you get on.

(Allie) #3

Sounds more like you need more salt / electrolytes tbh.
0.1mmol is still ketosis, likely just means your body is efficient as producing the right amount to fuel your body.

#4

Hello Herbert. please could you list a day of eating to help us see what is happening?

(Herbert ) #5

Yes

Yesterday I start the day with a glass of almond milk and a little collagen and cinnamon. And drink a gals with a protion of Dr.Berg electrolyte powder. Contains i.a. 1000mg Potassium.
Around 11 am I have fasted from the day before 6 pm, ie for 17 hours. I now make a 200 g beef tenderloin steak and a 180 g steak of minced beef with 15% fat. Add a few fried vegetables.
About 1 am I eat 450 g of mixed salad with olive oil pesto, about 60 g of pesto.
I drink 5 - 6 glasses (150 ml) of water with an electrolyte tablet dissolved in the day.
Throughout the day there are periods where I feel dizzy and take at 7pm some nuts and another glas of water.
When I get home from work at 10pm I have measurement of 0.1 ketosis and 3.8 sugar.
Last night I had a good heat in my body (except my arms slept) and actually thought I was getting into ketosis, but I am not.
My blood pressure is usually 135/75 and this morning is 145/92 or so.

(Allie) #6

You do know that too much potassium is extremely dangerous, right?
You’re having too much… Dr Berg eh? I will leave the comments to others as there will be some strong words to say.

(Herbert ) #7

I forgot to write that I also ate 3 advocado for lunch along with the 2 steaks.
I am otherwise of the opinion that you should have 4 - 5 grams of potassium every day and a supplement of 1 - 1.5 grams via electrolyte powder is not wrong. But I would love to hear if there are other opinions so I can correct and do the right thing.

#8

I, myself, aim for between 3,500 and 4,000 grams of potassium daily and haven’t had any issues. I don’t always get that much. I also supplement with magnesium glycinate or citrate because I notice when I don’t get these. I’m not sure you would need these, though.

Are you getting enough salt? I’m familiar with who Dr. Berg is, but not with his electrolyte powders. Doesn’t he tend toward more vegetables in his supplements?

How long have you been eating Keto? It could be you are efficiently using your ketones and not wasting them.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

Just my opinions. I think you’re not eating enough overall, too little protein and fat and too much veg, ‘pesto’ and avocado/olive oil. If you’re supplementing potassium then likely you’ll have to supplement sodium to keep them balanced. A potassium:sodium imbalance could account for the symptoms you list. Sodium is contained in greater amounts in more foods than potassium, so you don’t necessarily have to ‘salt’ everything you eat, but you do need to be cognizant of the potassium:sodium overall balance.

I know many folks might disagree with me, but I think olive oil and avocados are highly overrated nutritionally. Yes, they’re mostly MUFAs, but if you’re using them as your primary fat source, then you are not getting sufficient sat fat. I suggest you reduce both and add more butter, cream and fatty meats (15% is much too lean!) to what you’re eating. Also, cut back on the veggies and pesto.

Best wishes.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

PS:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

You’ve gotten some good responses here. I think Michael summed it up best: more protein and healthy fat, less vegetable foods, watch the electrolyte balance.

But if your arms keep falling asleep and that doesn’t change with better attention to your electrolytes, then you will need to see a physician.

(Herbert ) #12

Thanks for all the great answers.

Why I eat a lot of olive oil is because my cholesterol got too high, it’s probably after I have eaten organic bacon every day throughout my keto period, to get some fat. It was Subsequently my opinion that when talking about healthy fats, then it is not fats from bacon and similarly saturated fats. What do you think of when you talk about healthy fats?

I am aware that I am on the lower end of the amount I need to eat. It should be more.

I have been eating Keto for a little over 3 months and got out of Ketosis in the sucking of December 21st when I broke loose with red wine, port wine and a little, but too much sugar.
Subsequently, I have had a kind of keto flu, especially with dizziness and at times high blood pressure.
I eat salt, but maybe not enough. A few grams maybe, at most. In addition, I also eat magnesium in the evening as I sleep well on it.

In many of the places I have read about healthy keto, you have to eat the equivalent of 7 cups of salad and vegetables a day. And Berg is also talking about it.

The contents of a spoon are as follows:
75 mg calcium lactate
120 mg magnesium citrate
60 mg Himalayan Salt Chloride
40 mg Himalayan Salt Sodium
1000 mg of potassium citrate
100 mg Trace mineral complex

I measure ketones in the blood, so they should give results if they are there. In relation to urine tests where the body after some time economizes with the ketones, so you do not urinate them out unnecessarily.

(Allie) #13

There’s plenty of info on this forum about potassium already, including details from those who have made themselves seriously ill (it can kill, so not to be taken lightly) by taking too much. Potassium supplements are normally limited to smaller doses specifically because it’s so dangerous to have too much, and it is the easiest of the electrolytes to get from food so is the least necessary to supplement. It also NEEDS to be in the correct ratio to sodium, 1:3 ratio I believe, so if you’re going crazy on potassium while not getting the right amount of sodium, you’re just going to make yourself ill. With all the greens & avocados you’re eating, you likely don’t need to supplement at all.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

The actual level of your cholesterol is not all that important. There is a lot of evidence to show that, even if LDL is a marker for cardiovascular disease, high LDL certainly does not cause cardiovascular disease. The most important number is the ratio between your triglycerides and your HDL. In the units used by most of the world, a ratio of 0.9 or less indicates minimal cardiovascular risk. In the units used in North America, 2.0 or less is what you want.

When we talk about healthy fats, we generally mean saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids. In any kind of quantity, polyunsaturated fatty acids cause systemic inflammation, especially the ω-6 fatty acids. This is one of the reasons we strongly recommend not using industrial seed oils. The fruit oils (avocado, coconut, and olive) are much less processed and have much less ω-6 fatty acids, so they are a better choice, if you simply cannot live without oil in your life. Yes, ω-3 and ω-6 are essential to the diet, but we need them in only small quantities. So you would be fine if the only fats you ate were animal fats, such as butter, lard, tallow, and bacon grease.

Dizziness can be a sign of low sodium and hypovolaemia. Keep your salt intake up and drink to thirst. If that doesn’t resolve the issue, you may need to see your doctor.

This is nonsense. The human body has no need of dietary carbohydrate at all. The body needs a certain amount of glucose, but the liver is perfectly well able to manufacture that small amount (the process is called gluconeogenesis).

(Laurie) #15

I suggest cutting way back on the vegetables and avocados. Pesto can also be high in carbs; 60 g of pesto is a lot.

If you feel dizzy in the evening, you could have a boiled egg or some cold meat instead of nuts.

You might also try eating more meat. Good luck.

(Allie) #16

Yes.
It’s a Dr Berg-ism :unamused:

(Herbert ) #17

I will try to follow the advice you give, which I am very happy for.
So cut down on salad and pesto, eat some bacon again and more meat. Usually I also ate 3 eggs a day, I will start on that again.
Then I will return in some time with the result.
And I remember my salt intake.

I’m going for a new blood test in a month’s time, so we’ll see how it develops.

Unfortunately, you can not where I live in an easy way get analyzed the LDL content for the amount of any. oxidized LDL, it would be interesting to get info if there is anything to worry about.
Regards
Herbert

(bulkbiker) #18

Not correct… if you get a value then you are producing ketones… your meter would say zero or Lo if you had none.