No dairy on keto?


#61

Any of them, they’re all just Lactase enzyme. It’s what you’re not making enough off if you’re intolerant or walking the line. I typically buy the store brand ripoff of lactaid. Buying it at wholesale clubs helps, typically double for the same amount of money.


(Wendy) #62

Thank you! It would make my life much easier! I will ck with the local Walmart. Then I could enjoy cream cheese and heavy whipping cream!:yum:


(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #63

Milk and eggs are considered “dairy” for commercial purposes in the U.S. It’s rather like treating tomatoes, which are fruits, as vegetables for commercial purposes.

Lactose intolerance is the human norm. Past childhood, there is no need, evolutionarily speaking, for the ability to produce lactase to persist. There are two distinct mutations that allow people to continue producing lactase into adulthood, however. One occurred in the Maasai of Africa, the other in the population of Northern Europe. People with either of those two groups in their ancestry can usually digest milk products with no difficulty. Even given the ability to metabolise lactose and galactose, however, many adults develop a sensitivity to one or more of the milk proteins, and the symptoms can be similar to those of lactose intolerance.

Irritable bowel is actually a symptom of excessive carbohydrate intake.


#64

I am purely North European, and was raised on dairy. Ate and drank it all my life until my 60s, then, suddenly, it caused major bloating and alternating constipation and diarrhea. I eliminated it from my diet entirely and my bowels went back to normal. Years later, I started Keto and slowly introduced it again, about 8 months into Keto. Tried Gee first, good. Then goat cheese - good. Then butter and cream - still good. I now use it freely but not excessively and no issues anymore.

So, I was fine until my 60s. Then had the issues, eliminated it, and was fine again. Then, years later and well into Keto, I reintroduced it and fine so far.

When I first eliminated the dairy I was still on a heavy carb diet, and it did make all the difference. So that doesn’t fit with what you wrote, but then, individuals may always vary. I do think that Keto made dairy possible for me again, but then, correlation does not equal causation, so…


#65

There’s definitely an Equate branded one, I used to buy it regularly. Welcome back to dairy goodness.


(Jane) #66

It took forever because you used a lower fat buttermilk instead of cream.

I bought some raw goat’s milk, separated the cream from the milk and churned the cream with electric beaters. Had butter in minutes. The liquid that separated is what we used to call “buttermilk” but now it is cultured from milk, so higher fat content. Real buttermilk is pretty thin.

I made cottage cheese from the separated milk and ricotta from the leftover whey. Got my money’s worth out of that expensive milk!


(Polly) #67

What?

I do not know how things are done in your part of the world but in my country you churn cream to make butter and what you are left with [after removal of the butter solids] is buttermilk.


(Bunny) #68

What I was doing was actually a grade school science project, we made lunch (actually it was dinner now that I remember) for our parents, teachers and cafeteria staff, us kids did all the cooking and served the adults dinner the old fashion way from colonial and early settler times…lol

I can see why it took a week to make non-refrigerated whipped butter.

I guess buttermilk can be turned into whipped butter?

…And yes everybody ate the butter I made and I got lots of compliments!


(Bob M) #69

You win points from me for that statement!

I have (1) not eaten dairy, (2) eaten some dairy, or (3) eaten a lot of diary. By “dairy”, I mean mainly hard cheeses, cream and sometimes full fat yogurt. Some times, sour cream. Sometimes, cream cheese. Will eat/use butter or ghee. Sometimes actually “eat” butter with my meal.

I go through phases. If there is “inflammation” caused by this type of eating, I’ll be darned if I can tell what it is.

It’s a difficult analysis, though. For instance, I had cheese with my lunch today. The cheese was from sheep’s milk, Manchego. Is this “dairy” in the sense it’s not from cows? And therefore is only A2? Tonight, might not have any dairy. Might not have either tomorrow.


#70

If you are lactose intolerant, which is a digestive issue, your body doesn’t produce enough lactose to digest dairy. That is usually due to an issue, present or past, with your small intestine, although it can also be hereditary in which case it starts during childhood. It doesn’t actually mean you can’t have any dairy, although some people are intolerant to that extent. Usually, though, people with intolerance can eat goat cheese, sheep cheese and well aged hard cheeses. Most people continue to be able to produce some lactose, it is a matter of how much you still produce. It’s not necessarily an all or nothing matter.


(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #71

I believe you may be confusing lactose, which is a milk sugar, and lactase, which is the enzyme that digests it. Human beings generally lose the ability to produce lacatase as they grow up, meaning that they lose their ability to digest lactose. The digestive symptoms they experience are caused by the by-products of the fermentation of lactose and galactose (the principal milk sugars) by the intestinal bacteria.

Two distinct mutations, among the Maasai of Africa and among the peoples of Northern Europe, have allowed certain groups of people to be able to digest lactose and galactose into adulthood. Their genetic makeup does not shut off lactase production after they are weaned. But intolerance of lactose and galactose in adulthood is the genetic norm.

A separate issue with eating dairy is that some people develop an intolerance to casein and other milk proteins. This can happen even to people who can tolerate lactose.


(Bob M) #72

My problem with this area is that when people say “dairy” it can mean vastly different things to different people.

The other thing is the “inflammation” that people say they can get. While I don’t doubt some might get “inflammation” from “dairy”, how can one test this in a scientific way? I have yet to figure that out. I’m not sure what “inflammation” even is. And I’ve seen people say that if they have a tablespoon of cream in their coffee, they will gain two pounds. I find that difficult to believe (even if there is inflammation caused by “dairy”, what can cause such a result, unless you’re really allergic to the minor amount of protein in cream).

Also, people say that diary causes them to eat more. If that’s true, that’s a good reason to not eat dairy. I have found that not to be the case, though; or if it is the case, I can’t tell it is (other than maybe yogurt, but that might be because I treat it like dessert). I could also eat less because I did not eat high fat for years, and eating non-fat dairy is, well, disgusting. So, maybe I still associated dairy with tasting terrible.

I can see that people could have a problem with casein. That’s possible. But then we have to get into the whole A1/A2 protein debate. For instance, I again had sheep’s milk cheese for breakfast/lunch today. Is that bad? Good?

I can tell you yesterday that I had some sliced meats with Manchego cheese, olives, and pickles. I ate “early” (say 10:30 am), and was NOT hungry AT ALL for many hours. I got home from work at about 7:30pm and did eat a small dinner because my wife had it ready. However, I could have easily skipped it.

So, every time I try to point to some “inflammation” or hunger or any other negative effect of “dairy” (other than since I treat yogurt as “dessert”, I can tend to overeat because of it), I can’t do it. Or I do it one time, then the same thing does not happen the next time.

Dairy = flummoxed Bob.

Now, if I had two of me, I might be able to solve this conundrum. Without two of me, I’m lost.


#73

Sorry, I meant lactase, not lactose.

As far as dairy making people gain weight - for me this is true because it is my “candy”. I am a huge fan of cheese and I have to seriously concentrate on limiting it or I would eat excessive amounts. I got stuck because of cheese back when I was doing Atkins. When I was a kid, if we wanted snacks, there was always a variety of cheeses in the fridge and a basket with various fruit on the table. We were allowed to eat these two freely. If lactose intolerance had not put an abrupt stop to my cheese consumption, I would still be fat from cheese.

Goat, sheep and well aged hard cheeses do not tend to have that effect because they are very strong flavored and a little goes a long way. They are kind of self-limiting.


#74

Dairy causing overeating, it’s obviously very individual. Some people automatically eat the same amount of calories, almost no matter what they eat as everything satiate them very similarly - they don’t have that.
I can’t test it with cheese as no way I could eat much of it. But low-protein dairy definitely makes me eat more as they don’t satiate me at all. Butter, cream - I don’t exactly avoid them but I do my best to keep the amount low most of the time, I do this with all added fat and sugary things. Cream is very “bad” as it has both sugar and fat and very little protein and it’s even delicious and easy to eat. While it can’t help with satiation. I never particularly liked yogurt, I rarely ate kefir, its sour sibling (nice but it’s basically water with sugar in my eyes, not much fat, not much protein, I don’t often eat such stuff) - but now the lots of sugar (lactose) annoys me in it, I preferred it definitely NOT sweet so it lost all its charm.
So I enjoy my tiny dairy, preferably my beloved zerocarb half-hard cheese but even heavy and sour cream in moderation… I can afford a little amount and I enjoy the hell out of them. My body never complains if I do this. But if I poured generous amounts of cream into my coffee as some people do, I would feel some subtle unpleasantness and I like to listen to the subtle nudges of my body - unless the temptation is too great and that wins (fortunately my tastebuds prefer the tiny amount of cream anyway and I drink black coffee in my typically long fasting window).
But my cheese never felt bad.


(Wendy) #75

Yep! I was diagnosed dairy protein allergy. Tried everything thinking it was a lactose intolerance. Unfortunately dairy is out for me. Although I feel much better. And no longer have skin eruptions. And the acid reflux is under control.


(Laurie) #76

I’m glad you got that figured out! And that you feel better. Thank you for letting us know.


#77

I’m trying to gain weight and recently started experimenting with including milk after workout. I’m not sure why milk, I just really wanted to drink milk.

So I started drinking 1L of goat milk after gym. I think it helps in my recovery.

I was expecting it will kick me out of ketosis (45g of sugar), but I was suprised to see that my blood glucose mesured 30 min and 1 hour after drinking it stays in the 4.6 - 4.9 range. I assume I’m still in ketosis then??


(Wendy) #78

Goat milk is very tolerable for me. I choose not to drink or use it due to the like 14g of sugar. It has. Not sure what fresh from the goat is? But if it works for you and gives you that boost and your at your weight range. Much better choice than Cow milk.
My parents got goats when I was a baby cause I couldn’t tolerate cow milk. Back then I dont think Soy was an option.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #79

As I determined here, a normal and healthy metabolism maintains normal glucose levels during ketosis. You’re measuring the wrong thing but unfortunately we can’t measure insulin at home. It’s very possible that whatever amount of glucose resulted from your goat milk did not cause a sufficient rise in insulin to stop ketosis. It’s also possible that the goat milk took longer than 1 hour to digest into glucose and stimulate an insulin rise. So I suggest you repeat your experiment and measure glucose every 30 minutes for 4 hours. I don’t think warranted your conclusion that ketosis was unaffected. Maybe not. And if so maybe for only a few hours. But you need to test your glucose for longer than an hour. Also, it would be much better to test for ketones directly since there’s no known direct correlation between glucose levels and ketone levels other than high glucose probably means low/no ketones. You won’t necessarily get high glucose if insulin packs it away as it’s digested. If you are normally insulin sensitive then insulin won’t rise much either, and not affect ketosis much.


(Bob M) #80

You might have an A1 protein problem, but not an A2 protein problem.

https://www.authoritydiet.com/a1-vs-a2-cows-milk-what-difference-benefits-nutrition/